E185: Variational CEO: This Hidden Fee Is Quietly Draining Your Crypto Account
E185: Variational CEO: This Hidden Fee Is Quietly Draining Your Crypto Account
Podcast1 hr 28 min
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Long-term investors should use ongoing market consolidation to accumulate Bitcoin (BTC), backed by expanding institutional infrastructure and long-term targets such as $150,000 by January 2027. Active traders holding multi-week leveraged positions across equities, foreign exchange (FX), and commodities should consider Variational's on-chain swaps to secure predictable 4% to 5% annualized carry costs without paying standard broker commissions. For high-frequency trading and deep liquidity in major cryptocurrencies, gold, and oil, utilize Hyperliquid (HYPE) as a premier decentralized order-book venue. Investors should position for the expanding Real-World Assets (RWA) theme by targeting platforms that route traditional market liquidity on-chain to enable seamless 24/7 trading from a single collateral base.

Detailed Analysis

Variational Protocol

  • Variational is an on-chain peer-to-peer derivatives protocol built on Arbitrum that operates as an aggregator and broker rather than a traditional order-book exchange.
    • The protocol raised $50 million in institutional funding in May to bridge traditional finance (TradFi) liquidity directly into decentralized finance (DeFi).
    • Variational offers a zero-fee trading model across all markets and position sizes by internalizing liquidity aggregation and capturing market-making spread efficiencies rather than charging taker/maker commissions.
    • Currently supports over 450 crypto listings, commodities, foreign exchange (FX), global equities, and pre-IPO assets, reaching over $1 billion in daily trading volume and open interest.
    • Features bilateral financial contracts called swaps as an alternative to standard perpetual contracts (perps). These provide linear exposure with a predictable annualized carry cost of approximately 4% to 5% per annum, avoiding unpredictable and volatile weekend perp funding rates.

Takeaways

  • Active traders and portfolio managers can eliminate recurring percentage-based trading commissions by utilizing Variational's zero-fee, liquidity-aggregated platform.
  • Investors seeking multi-day or multi-week leveraged positions on real-world assets should evaluate on-chain swaps over standard perpetuals to avoid performance drag caused by variable funding rate spikes.
  • Monitor the platform's user trust metrics and open interest growth as it aims to disrupt legacy high-fee brokerages and capture market share in on-chain derivatives.

Hyperliquid (HYPE)

  • Hyperliquid is recognized as the leading decentralized perpetuals exchange, serving as foundational on-chain trading infrastructure similar to a decentralized NASDAQ or CME.
    • The exchange utilizes an on-chain central limit order book that provides deep liquidity and continuous price discovery for core crypto assets, gold, and oil.
    • The platform faces scaling limitations when expanding to thousands of global real-world assets, as each order book requires dedicated liquidity bootstrapping from scratch rather than aggregating external Wall Street liquidity pools.
    • Regarded as a resilient, long-term infrastructure layer that will likely coexist with emerging on-chain brokerages and liquidity aggregators.

Takeaways

  • Hyperliquid remains a premier venue for high-frequency trading and low-latency execution on high-liquidity crypto assets and core commodities.
  • Expect Hyperliquid to maintain its position as a core liquidity backbone in DeFi, while complementary broker-style platforms aggregate its order book alongside traditional market venues.

Bitcoin (BTC) & Crypto Majors

  • Market sentiment remains structurally bullish for Bitcoin and core crypto assets over the multi-year macro horizon.
    • Kalshi prediction markets price a 4% probability of Bitcoin reaching $150,000 by January 2027, reflecting a period of macro consolidation before the next potential capital expansion.
    • The broader cryptocurrency thesis is shifting from speculative retail cycles toward quiet infrastructure adoption, specifically in stablecoin settlements, international foreign exchange payments, and autonomous AI-agent payment rails.
    • Institutional integration continues to advance through expanding ETF offerings and regular coverage across mainstream financial networks.

Takeaways

  • Long-term investors should view price consolidations as structural accumulation phases driven by institutional infrastructure growth rather than short-term retail hype.
  • Keep collateral management strict when trading leveraged contracts on major assets like BTC and ETH to prevent principal erosion from compounding holding fees during volatile drawdowns.

Real-World Assets (RWA) & On-Chain Derivatives

  • Real-world asset trading volume is projected to eventually surpass native cryptocurrency trading volume on decentralized rails.
    • The transition allows traders globally to access equities, commodities, and currency pairs around the clock from a single consolidated stablecoin collateral balance.
    • Structural consolidation is expected to displace antiquated, high-fee international brokerages as modern on-chain aggregation models deliver superior pricing, lower capital costs, and direct access to multi-asset portfolios.

Takeaways

  • Position for long-term growth in platforms facilitating on-chain RWA integration, as global financial liquidity steadily moves from siloed regional brokers into unified decentralized protocols.
  • Prioritize RWA platforms that route and hedge directly into deep traditional finance markets to ensure minimal bid-ask spreads and optimal price execution on non-crypto assets.
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Episode Description
Lucas Schuermann is the founder and CEO of Variational, a peer-to-peer derivatives protocol built on Arbitrum. Former Genesis executive, former quant, and someone who went to Columbia at 12 and started a hedge fund at 20. Today we get into why variational charges zero trading fees, how it's aggregating liquidity from traditional finance to list hundreds of assets on chain, why perps have a funding rate problem most traders don't understand until it costs them, and what happens to old-school brokers once this liquidity actually moves. ___________ THE SHIFT NEWSLETTER 💡Go beyond the mic - subscribe to The Shift, my new weekly newsletter where I share the uncut stories, raw takes, and behind-the-scenes notes from When Shift Happens: https://www.kevinfollonier.com/ ___________ PARTNERS ⚖️ Variational aggregates liquidity to offer industry-leading depth on crypto, equities, commodities, and more: https://www.variational.io/  🚀 Jupiter is the most used Decentralized Exchange in Crypto and the largest DEX by volume on Solana: https://jup.ag/  💳 KAST lets you manage and spend stablecoins or crypto with a Visa Card or Apple Pay. Live in 100+ countries - Get $20 Signup Bonus - https://go.kast.xyz/VqVO/SHIFT - promo code: SHIFT  🌱 Bitwise Asset Management manages $15B+ across 30+ crypto investment products — ETFs, index funds, alpha, staking, and more. https://bitwiseinvestments.com/  ⚖️ Ethena is a synthetic dollar protocol on Ethereum, offering a crypto-native, non-bank-dependent stablecoin called USDe. It uses a delta-neutral hedging strategy with staked ETH to maintain a $1 peg. https://ethena.fi/  ♾️ Coinsilium provides vital funding and expert advice to Web3 and AI-powered early-stage technology companies. https://www.coinsilium.com  🚀 Kalshi is a US regulated financial exchange that allows users to trade on the outcomes of real-world events : https://kalshi.com/category/crypto ___________ FOLLOW VARIATIONAL 👇 • Twitter: https://x.com/variational_io • Linkedin: https://ky.linkedin.com/company/variational FOLLOW WHEN SHIFT HAPPENS Twitter (X): https://x.com/KevinWSHPod   Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/kevinfollonier_  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@kevinfollonier_ Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfollonier/ Website: https://kevinfollonier.com/ DISCLAIMER The info contained herein is for informational purposes only. Nothing herein shall be construed to be financial, legal, or tax advice. The content of this video is solely the opinions of the speakers who are not a licensed financial advisor or registered investment advisor. Trading cryptocurrencies poses considerable risk of loss. The speakers do not guarantee any particular outcome. Timestamps  0:00 Intro 2:20 Merch, Travel & Being Back in Singapore 5:13 Who Is Lucas Sherman? 5:24 How Lucas Thinks About Building Trust 6:03 Starting College at Age 12 8:26 How Do You Actually Skip That Many Grades? 9:45 Making Friends Six Years Younger Than Everyone Else 10:40 Are You Still a "Weirdo" at 30? 11:40 Starting a Hedge Fund at 20 - "Hubris of the Young" 14:09 From Paper-Reading Group to a Real Fund 16:50 Acquired by Digital Currency Group at 21 18:59 Why Sell the Fund to DCG? 19:54 Sponsors: Variational & Bitwise 20:47 Did You Regret Selling That Early? 21:51 The Money DCG Made Off Their Work 22:38 Starting a Market Making Firm 24:46 Explain Variational Protocol to Your Mom 26:49 Biggest Mistake Building Variational 28:13 The "Holy Sh*t, We Built Something Massive" Moment 29:54 Reason #1: Zero Fees 32:59 How Do You Trust the Price With Only One Market Maker? 34:33 Are Trading Fees a Scam? 35:29 How Much Do Fees Actually Cost Traders? 36:33 Reason #2: Asset Selection & What "Liquidity" Really Means 40:20 Why Hasn't Crypto Solved This Already? 42:39 Where On-Chain Order Books Break at Scale 46:04 Sponsor: KAST 1:07:30 Sponsor: Jupiterexchange & Ethena
About When Shift Happens Podcast
When Shift Happens Podcast

When Shift Happens Podcast

By Kevin Follonier

I sit down every week with the most based people in crypto. My goal is to create a safe space to have the deepest and most real conversations with the biggest builders and investors in the industry, as well as to help educate the mainstream people, politicians, celebrities and big Web2 entrepreneurs coming into Web3. Hopefully this platform does its little part in onboarding as many people as possible into the incredible world of opportunities that Web 3 offers, while staying true to crypto’s core values and ethos. Thank you for watching.