THORChain Says It Can't Block North Korean Laundering. Is That True?
THORChain Says It Can't Block North Korean Laundering. Is That True?
1 hour ago•Unchained•Laura Shin
Podcast1 hr 11 min
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

No clear buy recommendation or price target is provided for RUNE, BTC, ETH, XRP, XMR, UNI, or NEAR; avoid treating the discussion as a signal to buy. If considering RUNE or running a THORChain node, weigh regulatory, reputational, and governance risks tied to the protocol’s handling of illicit funds. Treat 1inch Aqua as a higher-risk liquidity strategy: fees are not guaranteed, so assess the possibility of losses before participating.

Detailed Analysis

THORChain (RUNE)

  • THORChain was the central topic. Its co-founder argued that the protocol is decentralized and cannot quickly block specific transactions; changing its behavior generally requires node consensus.
  • The debate highlighted that validators can buy RUNE, run a node, and participate in the network. The transcript did not recommend buying RUNE or provide a price target.
  • The speakers discussed large spikes in THORChain trading volume and fees after major hacks, including Bybit and Bitget. One cited estimate put fees associated with the Bybit laundering activity at roughly $10–12 million over a week; the co-founder disputed how much significance to assign to that period relative to the protocol’s full history.
  • The discussion raised risks around potential regulatory scrutiny, reputational damage, and whether exchanges or analytics firms may apply higher risk scores to Bitcoin leaving THORChain vaults. The co-founder said he was not particularly concerned, while acknowledging the screening activity.
  • The speakers disagreed about whether validators could or should pause trading to impede stolen funds. They also discussed whether node operators might face social or financial pressure for dissenting; the co-founder denied that operators would be penalized merely for disagreement.

Takeaways

  • RUNE and THORChain carry governance and reputation risks tied to the protocol’s approach to illicit funds, as well as uncertainty about how regulators and exchanges may treat its activity.
  • If considering running a node, understand the protocol’s validator rules, fee distribution, and the possibility that network activity—including activity linked to stolen funds—may affect the service and its public perception.
  • The transcript offers no specific buy/sell recommendation, price target, or investment timeline.

Bitcoin (BTC)

  • Bitcoin was discussed mainly as a destination for funds moving through THORChain and as a comparison for censorship resistance.
  • The guests debated whether Bitcoin miners should refuse to process transactions associated with stolen funds. The discussion did not present a Bitcoin-specific investment thesis or price outlook.
  • The transcript noted that exchanges or analytics firms may screen Bitcoin coming out of THORChain vaults, particularly after major hacks.

Takeaways

  • The discussion points to transaction-screening and reputational considerations for Bitcoin moving through cross-chain services, but gives no specific BTC recommendation or price target.

Ethereum (ETH)

  • Ethereum was discussed as a major THORChain trading route and as a comparison for how decentralized protocols respond to hacks.
  • The guests debated whether THORChain could pause ETH trading to make it harder to move stolen funds. The co-founder said a sufficiently broad protocol response would be slow and disruptive; the other guest argued that pausing a specific route could still make laundering more difficult.
  • No ETH price target or investment recommendation was given.

Takeaways

  • The transcript highlights cross-chain and governance risks rather than a distinct investment case for ETH. It provides no specific ETH recommendation or price target.

XRP (XRP)

  • XRP was mentioned in connection with a route involving ETH that the guest said was heavily composed of funds stolen in the Bitget hack during the relevant period.
  • The discussion used this example to argue that pausing a route might impede laundering, while the THORChain co-founder disputed how effective such action would be.
  • No XRP price target or investment recommendation was given.

Takeaways

  • The XRP discussion is about route-level exposure to stolen funds, not XRP’s investment outlook. No specific XRP recommendation was made.

Monero (XMR)

  • Monero came up in a discussion of a THORChain integration and privacy. The co-founder said he supports individuals’ privacy; the other guest recalled comments she interpreted as welcoming trading activity by thieves. He said that was not what he meant and apologized if he had misspoken.
  • The conversation did not include a Monero price outlook or direct investment recommendation.

Takeaways

  • The discussion raises a reputational tension between privacy use cases and illicit use, but provides no specific XMR investment guidance.

Uniswap (UNI)

  • The THORChain co-founder argued that decentralized protocols such as Uniswap can also generate fees from transactions involving illicit funds. He referred to a portion of fees being associated with the UNI token, but the discussion did not examine UNI’s valuation or token economics in detail.
  • No UNI price target or investment recommendation was given.

Takeaways

  • The comparison illustrates that fee revenue may include activity linked to illicit funds across DeFi protocols. It does not establish a specific investment case for UNI.

NEAR / NEAR Intents

  • NEAR Intents was presented as a contrasting approach: its Shield risk layer can refuse a quote or halt a swap mid-execution. The host said it had blocked an attempted $50 million in laundered funds and frozen about $500,000 mid-swap, with plans to return $340,000.
  • The THORChain co-founder said he would consider the approach if validators wanted to adopt something similar, but said he would need to study its technical design and implications.
  • The transcript did not discuss the NEAR token’s price or provide an investment recommendation.

Takeaways

  • NEAR Intents illustrates a risk-screening approach that may appeal to users concerned about illicit activity, but the transcript does not establish its long-term effectiveness or offer a NEAR token investment thesis.

1inch Aqua

  • The sponsor described Aqua as a shared-liquidity platform that lets liquidity providers back multiple positions with the same wallet balance and keep tokens in their wallet until a swap fills.
  • The ad cited $540 million in concentrated liquidity sitting idle in a given week during the first half of the year, described as about 30% of DeFi TVL.
  • The sponsor explicitly cautioned that providing liquidity carries risk and that fees are not guaranteed.

Takeaways

  • Aqua was presented as a DeFi liquidity-management product, not as a specific token recommendation. Anyone evaluating liquidity provision should account for the stated risks and the possibility of earning no fees.
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Episode Description
In this spicypost-Bitget hack debate, THORChain co-founder Chad Barraford says the protocol can't block laundering. Taylor Monahan points to the halts it has used before. ======================================================== Thank you to our sponsor! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 1inch.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to swap tokenized securities, crypto and more. Simple. Secure. Self-custodial. Whatever asset you’re buying - swap it at⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 1inch.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ======================================================== Quick favor: We're deciding what Unchained does next; new shows, stream times, what's worth paying for.⁠⁠⁠⁠ Our listener survey⁠⁠⁠⁠ takes five minutes, it's anonymous, and I read the write-in answers myself. Everyone who takes it can enter a drawing for a free year of Unchained Premium or Bits + Bips Premium. Open through Sunday, October 18. — Laura ======================================================== The Bitget hack reignited a fight on crypto Twitter: should chains that can stop North Korea from laundering stolen funds actually do it? THORChain, which DPRK hackers keep using to reach Bitcoin, landed at the center of it. Chad Barraford, co-founder of THORChain, argues the protocol cannot respond fast enough without redesigning it to be more centralized. Security expert Taylor Monahan counters that THORChain has acted before when its own protocol was at risk, and that routes made up almost entirely of stolen funds could simply be switched off. Laura Shin presses on the closed-source signing library, four operators running 39 nodes, why validators left after Bybit, ZachXBT's undercover look at a launderer pitching THORChain, Tornado Cash-style legal risk, and fee spikes after the KelpDAO and Bitget hacks. Barraford's answer to the biggest hypothetical is simple: if enough node operators want to block laundering, it gets blocked. Host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained Guests: Taylor Monahan - Security Expert and Co-host of Uneasy Money Chad Barraford - Co-founder of THORChain Timestamps ⚖️ 01:56 The Bitget debate: should chains that can block laundering do it? 🧱 04:10 Why Taylor says THORChain has been 'making this excuse' for years ⏸️ 10:48 THORChain paused for 5 weeks for itself. Why not for stolen funds? 🪙 19:15 1inch Aqua: See how LPs can back multiple positions with one token balance at http://unchainedcrypto.com/go/1inch-yt 🏦 20:15 Is THORChain an intermediary? The custody critique of its TSS vaults 🚪 24:32 Why did validators leave after Bybit? Chad and Taylor disagree 🧪 39:36 Does THORChain pass Chad's own decentralization litmus test? 🕵️ 47:59 ZachXBT's undercover probe: a launderer's 'Thor cross-chain' pitch 🏛️ 57:24 Could THORChain face a Tornado Cash-style case? Chad's legal defense 🛡️ 01:05:05 NEAR's Shield stopped $50M in laundering. Could THORChain copy it? 💸 01:05:57 Does THORChain profit from stolen funds? The fee spike debate Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
About Unchained
Unchained

Unchained

By Laura Shin

Crypto assets and blockchain technology are about to transform every trust-based interaction of our lives, from financial services to identity to the Internet of Things. In this podcast, host Laura Shin, an independent journalist covering all things crypto, talks with industry pioneers about how crypto assets and blockchains will change the way we earn, spend and invest our money. Tune in to find out how Web 3.0, the decentralized web, will revolutionize our world. Disclosure: I'm a nocoiner.