The Chopping Block: Corpo Chains, Monero’s AI Vampire Attack, and DAT Mania - Ep. 887
The Chopping Block: Corpo Chains, Monero’s AI Vampire Attack, and DAT Mania - Ep. 887
268 days agoUnchainedLaura Shin
Podcast51 min 39 sec
Listen to Episode
Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Analysts are extremely bullish on Ethereum (ETH) following its recent all-time high, with some price targets reaching as high as $16k. A major force driving the market is the rise of Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs), publicly traded companies like MicroStrategy (MSTR) that hold crypto on their balance sheets. Investors should monitor the premium of these stocks over their crypto holdings, as a compressing premium suggests a healthier market while a rapidly expanding one signals a potential bubble. Keep an eye out for new DATs focused on Ether, as they are expected to have an outsized impact on ETH's price due to its smaller market size. Finally, the recent approval for alternative assets in 401k plans creates a massive long-term catalyst, potentially bringing trillions in retirement funds into crypto over time.

Detailed Analysis

Ethereum (ETH)

  • The speakers note that ETH has just hit an all-time high, signaling the start of an "altcoin market."
  • There's a debate on whether ETH has "graduated" from being an altcoin, with one speaker suggesting that having a spot ETF makes an asset a "major" like Bitcoin.
  • The rise of "Corpo Chains" that don't build on Ethereum (as L2s) is seen by some in the ETH community as a negative, as they believe these companies should be using the existing L2 infrastructure and contributing to Ethereum's ecosystem.
  • However, one speaker argues this frustration is "short-sighted and kind of petty," suggesting that if companies are building their own chains, it's a sign that Ethereum's current solutions don't meet their business needs.
  • Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs) focused on Ether are expected to have a more significant market impact ("more convex") than Bitcoin-focused ones due to Ether's smaller market cap and liquidity.
  • The potential for staking yield is a key differentiator for Ether-based investment products. Staking ETFs are seen as less efficient products compared to DATs, which can maximize yield by staking 100% of their assets.
  • A speaker mentioned that analyst Tom Lee is extremely bullish, with claims of an "Ethereum sovereign put" and price targets as high as $16k or even $50k.

Takeaways

  • Bullish Sentiment: The general sentiment around ETH is bullish, driven by its recent all-time high, the growth of its ecosystem, and the potential for massive capital inflows from new investment vehicles like DATs.
  • Staking Yield is Key: For investors in public markets, products that offer staked ETH yield are seen as superior to those that don't. The ability of DATs to offer maximized, potentially leveraged, staking yield is a significant advantage over more regulated products like ETFs.
  • Ecosystem Competition: While Ethereum is a dominant platform, the emergence of "Corpo Chains" like those from Circle and Stripe highlights growing competition. Investors should monitor whether major applications and capital flows choose to build on Ethereum L2s or on separate, independent L1s.

Corpo Chains (Investment Theme)

  • A new trend of major fintech companies launching their own blockchains, dubbed "Corpo Chains," is emerging. This is seen as a new generation of "Enterprise Blockchain" but built on open, permissionless principles.
  • Circle's ARC Chain:
    • An L1 blockchain focused on stablecoins and foreign exchange (FX) payments.
    • The native gas token will be USDC.
    • It's a Proof of Authority chain designed to be very fast (3,000 TPS) and will feature confidential transfers.
  • Stripe's Tempo Chain:
    • Another L1 blockchain being built from the ground up by the investment firm Paradigm.
    • Fewer details are known, but it represents another major fintech player entering the blockchain infrastructure space.
  • Robinhood's L2:
    • Mentioned in contrast to the L1s from Circle and Stripe. The crypto community's response to Robinhood's L2 was much more positive because it builds on top of Ethereum (as an Arbitrum L2), which is seen as contributing to the existing ecosystem rather than fragmenting it.
  • The core debate is whether these companies should build their own L1s or use existing L2 solutions on Ethereum. The speakers note that the root of trust for these chains is ultimately the company itself, regardless of the underlying technology.

Takeaways

  • A New Wave of Adoption: The entry of giants like Circle and Stripe into building their own blockchains signals a significant new phase of corporate adoption and infrastructure development.
  • Distribution is Key: The success of these chains will likely depend on the company's ability to leverage its existing user base and distribution channels to bring activity to their new ecosystem.
  • L1 vs. L2 Matters for Ethos: The crypto community's reaction shows a strong preference for projects that build within the Ethereum ecosystem (L2s) over those that create new, separate ecosystems (L1s). This could impact developer and user adoption among crypto natives.
  • Investment Focus: These chains are primarily focused on stablecoins and payments, representing a shift away from volatile assets as the core of a blockchain's economy.

Circle Stock

  • Following the announcement of its ARC chain, Circle's stock price went up.
  • The company timed the announcement well, executing an "at the money" stock offering around the same time.
  • It was noted that Coinbase sold a portion of its shares into this offering.

Takeaways

  • Positive Market Reaction: The market reacted positively to Circle's strategic move to launch its own blockchain, viewing it as a value-additive initiative.
  • Strategic Capital Raise: Investors should note that the company used the positive news and resulting stock price increase as an opportunity to raise capital, a common and savvy corporate finance move.

Monero (XMR)

  • Monero, the largest privacy coin, experienced a 51% attack, where a single entity controlled over half of the network's mining power.
  • The attack was orchestrated by a project called Cubic, which is building an AI model. They used their network of GPUs to mine Monero, subsidized the effort with their own token rewards, and eventually took control of the network as a "proof of concept" and PR stunt.
  • During the attack, Monero's price dropped 15-20%.
  • The attackers eventually stopped, stating they didn't want to hurt the Monero price further because mining it was profitable for their business model.
  • The discussion highlighted that smaller Proof-of-Work (PoW) coins are vulnerable to such attacks, as it's easier to amass a majority of their hash power compared to Bitcoin.

Takeaways

  • Security Risks for PoW Coins: This event serves as a stark reminder of the security risks inherent in Proof-of-Work cryptocurrencies that are not as large as Bitcoin. Their networks can be vulnerable to being overpowered by well-capitalized attackers.
  • Market Reaction: The market reacts swiftly and negatively to security breaches. The 15-20% drop in XMR price shows how perceived security is directly tied to value.
  • A New Type of Attack: This "vampire attack" was novel because it was driven by economic incentives from an external token (Cubic), showcasing how incentives from one crypto system can be used to influence or attack another.

Bitcoin (BTC)

  • Bitcoin is positioned as the benchmark "major" crypto asset, against which "alts" and even Ethereum are measured.
  • The Monero 51% attack is presented as a potential "preview of what will someday happen to Bitcoin."
  • The core long-term risk for Bitcoin's security is its diminishing block reward. The "halvings" reduce the incentive for miners over time.
  • Unless Bitcoin's price increases exponentially forever to offset the reduction in block rewards, the cost to attack the network will eventually become "trivial," making it vulnerable to the same kind of attack Monero just experienced.
  • This is a long-term concern, not an immediate threat, but the Monero incident brings the theoretical risk into practical focus.

Takeaways

  • Long-Term Security Model: Investors should be aware of the long-term debate around Bitcoin's security budget. Its security relies on the value of the block reward (newly mined BTC) and transaction fees. As the block reward trends to zero (by ~2140), the network will become increasingly reliant on transaction fees to pay for security.
  • Price is Security: For Bitcoin's security model to remain robust in the coming decades, its price must continue to appreciate significantly, or its usage (and thus transaction fees) must grow exponentially. The Monero attack is a case study in what happens when a PoW chain's security budget becomes too low.

Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs) & MicroStrategy (MSTR)

  • DATs are publicly traded companies (like MicroStrategy) that hold digital assets on their balance sheets. They are seen as a major force driving the current market.
  • They create a powerful feedback loop: a DAT buys an asset (like ETH or BTC), which drives the price up. The higher asset price increases the DAT's stock price, allowing it to raise more capital to buy more of the asset.
  • A key metric to watch is the MNAV (Multiple to Net Asset Value), which is the premium or discount of the company's stock price relative to the value of the crypto it holds.
  • Recently, MNAVs have been compressing (the premium is shrinking), which is viewed as a healthy sign of market stabilization and sustainability.
  • One speaker believes we are only in the "fifth inning" of the DAT mania and that it will get "way bigger," leading to a massive run-up followed by a significant crash.
  • Ether DATs are expected to have a larger impact on price than Bitcoin DATs because the Ether market is smaller and less liquid.

Takeaways

  • Monitor MNAVs: The MNAV is a critical indicator of market sentiment. A high and rising MNAV suggests speculative mania, while a compressing or stable MNAV suggests a healthier, more sustainable market.
  • A Key Market Driver: DATs are a primary vehicle for traditional market capital to flow into crypto. Their buying activity can have an outsized impact on prices, creating both opportunities and risks of a sharp reversal.
  • Potential for a Mania and Crash: There is a significant risk that the DAT feedback loop could create an unsustainable bubble. Investors should be cautious, as the unwind of these positions during a market downturn could lead to a severe crash when these entities are forced to sell their underlying crypto assets.

Alternative Assets in 401ks (Investment Theme)

  • A recent executive order now allows 401k retirement plans to offer "alternative assets," which includes real estate, private equity, and crypto/digital assets.
  • This is not a mandate; it is up to the individual 401k plan fiduciaries to decide if it's "prudent" to offer these options.
  • The overall sentiment is that this is very bullish for crypto.
  • By opening up the massive pool of retirement capital to new asset classes, it could lead to more efficient capital allocation across the entire economy and significant inflows into crypto over the long term.

Takeaways

  • Long-Term Bullish Catalyst: This regulatory change opens the door for trillions of dollars in retirement accounts to potentially gain exposure to crypto. While adoption will be slow and gradual, it represents a massive new source of potential demand.
  • Increased Accessibility: This makes it easier for the general public to get crypto exposure through their standard retirement savings, potentially broadening the investor base significantly over time.
  • Watch for Adoption: The key will be to watch which major 401k providers (like Fidelity, Vanguard, etc.) begin to offer crypto funds and how much demand they see from their clients.
Ask about this postAnswers are grounded in this post's content.
Episode Description
Altcoin season meets corporate blockchains as Circle and Stripe launch their own L1s, Monero suffers the biggest 51% attack in history (powered by an AI named “Garth”), and the crew debates whether the DAT boom is heading toward equilibrium or mania. Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. In this episode, the crew dives into the surprising altcoin rally and asks whether ETH still counts as an alt. The big news: Circle unveils Arc, Stripe leaks Tempo — and crypto Twitter is not impressed. We explore why major fintechs are launching their own chains instead of using Ethereum L2s, and whether stablecoin-centric blockchains are the future or just profit grabs. Then: the wildest headline of the week — Monero gets hit with a 51% attack by Qubic, a project training an AI called “Garth,” in what might be the largest attack of its kind. We break down the game theory, the proof-of-work vs. proof-of-stake debate, and what this foreshadows for Bitcoin’s security decades from now. Also: Trump’s executive order opens the door for crypto in 401(k) plans, we speculate about a future GPU debt market crisis, and dissect the state of play in Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs) — including whether yield advantages over staking ETFs mean we’re only halfway to mania. Show highlights 🔹 ETH vs. Alts – Is Ethereum still an altcoin, or has it graduated to “major” status? 🔹 Circle’s Arc & Stripe’s Tempo – Why are fintech giants launching their own L1s instead of using Ethereum L2s? 🔹 Crypto Twitter Backlash – The ethos clash between “public goods” culture and corporate profit motives. 🔹 Monero’s 51% Attack – Qubic’s AI Garth mines enough hash power to take over Monero as a “proof of concept.” 🔹 Game Theory & Chain Security – Why PoW is fun (and dangerous) to reason about, and how PoS differs. 🔹 Bitcoin’s Future Risk – How tail emissions (or lack thereof) could leave BTC open to similar attacks. 🔹 401(k) Goes Crypto – Trump’s executive order allows digital assets in retirement accounts. 🔹 GPU Debt Crisis Fanfic – Tarun’s prediction for a future financial meltdown. 🔹 DATs Debate – Are Digital Asset Treasuries sustainable, or primed for a spectacular unwind? 🔹 Yield Edge over ETFs – Why DATs may outperform staking ETFs in capturing on-chain yield. ⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly ⭐️Robert Leshner, CEO & Co-founder of Superstate ⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures ⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly  Democratizing Access To Alternative Assets For 401(K) Investors  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/08/democratizing-access-to-alternative-assets-for-401k-investors/  Timestamps 00:00 Intro 01:01 Crypto Market Sentiments 02:29 Circle’s Arc & Stripe's Tempo 07:34 Corporate Chains vs. L2 Solutions 17:57 Monero's 51% Attack by Qubic 27:11  Real-World & Protocol Incentives 29:33 Monero's Tail Emission & Bitcoin's Future 34:39 Trump’s Executive Order: Crypto in 401(k)s 37:15 Next Financial Crisis? GPU Debt Crisis 41:15 DAT Mania Potential & mNAV Compression Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
About Unchained
Unchained

Unchained

By Laura Shin

Crypto assets and blockchain technology are about to transform every trust-based interaction of our lives, from financial services to identity to the Internet of Things. In this podcast, host Laura Shin, an independent journalist covering all things crypto, talks with industry pioneers about how crypto assets and blockchains will change the way we earn, spend and invest our money. Tune in to find out how Web 3.0, the decentralized web, will revolutionize our world. Disclosure: I'm a nocoiner.