Bits + Bips: Why Crypto's Next Step Is Perps, Tokenized Stocks and Altcoin ETFs - Ep. 861
Bits + Bips: Why Crypto's Next Step Is Perps, Tokenized Stocks and Altcoin ETFs - Ep. 861
311 days agoUnchainedLaura Shin
Podcast1 hr 16 min
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Consider allocating 1-10% of your portfolio to crypto, as having zero exposure is increasingly viewed as a speculative risk on its own. For investors holding Solana (SOL), staking through Jito to acquire the liquid staking token JitoSOL offers a compelling yield of approximately 7%. As an alternative to direct token ownership, consider investing in the "picks and shovels" of the crypto economy through equities like Coinbase (COIN) and Robinhood (HOOD). Both companies are launching high-growth products like perpetual futures, positioning them as strong plays on the ecosystem's expansion. Finally, watch for the potential launch of a spot Solana ETF that includes staking rewards, which could serve as a major catalyst for the asset.

Detailed Analysis

General Crypto & Portfolio Allocation

  • Prominent financial advisor Rick Edelman is now recommending a 40% crypto allocation for aggressive investors and up to 10% for conservative investors. This is a significant increase from his previous recommendations of 1-2%.
  • The rationale is that as life expectancies increase, investors need to take on more risk for longer periods.
  • The sentiment has shifted from owning crypto being a speculative risk to failing to own crypto being the speculative risk.
  • It was noted that many crypto believers who publicly recommend a small (e.g., 5%) allocation personally hold much larger positions (often over 20%).
  • A counterpoint was made that many early investors allocated a small percentage (e.g., 5%) which then grew to become a large part of their portfolio (e.g., 40%), which is different from allocating 40% from the start.
  • An observation was made that crypto-related equities (like COIN) have been outperforming crypto tokens, suggesting the pool of money available for equity investments is far larger than for direct token investments.

Takeaways

  • The Overton window for crypto allocation in traditional portfolios is shifting significantly. An allocation of 1-10% is becoming a more mainstream recommendation.
  • Investors may want to re-evaluate their own portfolio's crypto exposure. The argument is that having zero exposure is effectively a short position on the asset class.
  • Consider that a small allocation to crypto could grow into a significant position over time due to the asset class's volatility and potential for high returns.

Perpetual Futures ("Perps")

  • A speaker stated, "I think perps are going to eat the world." Perps are a type of derivative that allows traders to speculate on an asset's price with leverage, without an expiration date.
  • They are seen as a superior product to traditional futures contracts because they don't have "roll risk" (the costs and complexities of moving from an expiring contract to a new one).
  • Robinhood is launching perps for retail users in the European Union, and Coinbase is launching them in the United States. This is seen as a major step in bringing these powerful tools to a wider audience.
  • Risks Mentioned:
    • Perps can exacerbate volatility due to cascading liquidations, where forced selling triggers more forced selling.
    • They are a high-risk product. A comparison was made to Contracts for Difference (CFDs) in the UK, which were eventually banned for retail investors after many people lost money.
    • Institutional adoption faces hurdles, such as figuring out clearing mechanisms and managing margin calls at all hours, including weekends.

Takeaways

  • The introduction of perps on mainstream platforms like Robinhood and Coinbase could significantly increase trading volume and volatility in the crypto market.
  • For experienced traders, perps offer a capital-efficient way to get leveraged exposure to crypto assets.
  • For the general investor, it's crucial to understand that these are high-risk, complex instruments. The potential for total loss of capital is significant, especially when using leverage.

Tokenized Stocks

  • Major platforms like Robinhood, Kraken, and Gemini are launching or have launched tokenized stocks, primarily focusing on offering US stocks to non-US investors.
  • The main drivers are seen as providing 24/7 trading access and expanding market access for international users who have high demand for US equities like Tesla (TSLA) and Apple (AAPL).
  • A key innovation discussed is the ability to take tokenized stock off the platform. For example, a tokenized Apple (AAPL) share could potentially be used as collateral in a DeFi lending application, something a traditional share cannot do. This is where the real "use case" begins.
  • Risks/Challenges Mentioned:
    • The immediate benefit for US investors is low, as US equity markets are already extremely deep and efficient.
    • There are complexities around handling corporate actions like dividends and stock splits for tokens that are held off-platform in self-custody wallets.

Takeaways

  • Tokenized stocks represent a major convergence of TradFi and DeFi. The initial impact may be largest for international investors seeking easier access to US markets.
  • The long-term potential lies in the programmability of these assets. The ability to use a token representing a share of AAPL or TSLA as collateral in DeFi could unlock new financial strategies.
  • This is an emerging theme. Investors should watch how platforms like Robinhood build out their "super app" ecosystems around these new products.

Solana (SOL) & Jito (JTO)

  • Jito is a key protocol on Solana that provides liquid staking (JitoSOL) and a mechanism for traders to pay "tips" to get their transactions prioritized on the network.
  • This mechanism generates a significant yield. At the time of the podcast, the yield for staking SOL through Jito was mentioned as 7.19%. This yield comes from a combination of network inflation and the tips paid by traders.
  • JitoSOL is a liquid staking token (LST). Holding JitoSOL means you own staked Solana, and the staking rewards automatically accrue to the value of your token, abstracting away the complexity of managing staking directly.
  • JitoSOL was explicitly named in the filing for a potential Solana ETF, highlighting its importance in the ecosystem.
  • It was argued that any Solana investment product that does not include staking yield is an inferior product, given how high the yield is.

Takeaways

  • For investors holding Solana (SOL), liquid staking through a provider like Jito offers a way to earn a substantial yield (mentioned as ~7%) while maintaining liquidity.
  • Liquid staking tokens like JitoSOL are becoming foundational infrastructure in DeFi and may be a key component of future financial products like ETFs.
  • The development of a robust staking ecosystem is a bullish sign for the long-term health and utility of the Solana network.

Robinhood (HOOD)

  • Robinhood is making a major push into crypto and tokenization, described as building an "all-in platform" or "super app".
  • Key announcements include:
    • Launching perpetual futures and tokenized stocks for the European Union.
    • Developing its own blockchain to run its tokenization efforts.
    • Getting into the staking business.
  • The company is praised for its excellent user experience (UX), which could make complex and intimidating products like perpetual futures more accessible to a retail audience.

Takeaways

  • Robinhood is aggressively positioning itself to be a central hub for both traditional and crypto-native finance.
  • Its focus on user experience could be a key differentiator in driving mainstream adoption of more complex crypto products.
  • Investors in HOOD should view these moves as a strategic effort to capture a larger share of the global financial services market by integrating crypto at its core.

Coinbase (COIN)

  • Coinbase is also pursuing a "super app" strategy, having been the first major exchange to launch its own Layer 2 blockchain, Base.
  • The company is set to launch perpetual futures in the United States, a significant development for the US market.
  • It was noted that crypto-related equities like Coinbase (COIN) have been outperforming many crypto tokens, suggesting that investing in the "picks and shovels" of the crypto economy can be a profitable strategy.

Takeaways

  • Coinbase continues to be a leader in bridging traditional finance with the crypto world. The launch of perps in the US could be a significant revenue driver.
  • Investing in COIN can be seen as a diversified, equity-based bet on the growth of the entire crypto ecosystem, rather than speculating on a single token.

MicroStrategy (MSTR)

  • The company was described as an "equity wrapper of Bitcoin."
  • The podcast highlighted the irony that MSTR itself is going to be tokenized and traded on-chain. This was humorously called "evidence that we live in a simulation."

Takeaways

  • This highlights the deep integration happening between traditional markets and blockchain technology.
  • For investors, it serves as a reminder that MSTR is viewed by many primarily as a leveraged way to gain exposure to Bitcoin within a traditional stock portfolio.

Crypto ETFs & Staking

  • A spot Solana ETF that includes staking rewards is believed to be coming soon. A specific product from Rex Osprey was mentioned as potentially launching as soon as the same week as the podcast.
  • It was argued that for Proof-of-Stake assets like Ethereum and Solana, an ETF that includes staking yield is a "far superior product."
  • Liquid Staking Tokens (LSTs) like JitoSOL are seen as the optimal way to include staking in an ETF structure because they simplify liquidity management and yield accrual.
  • Hurdle Mentioned: The biggest uncertainty holding up staking in ETFs is a lack of clear guidance from the IRS on how staking rewards should be taxed within these fund structures. The SEC seems ready to approve them once the tax issue is resolved.

Takeaways

  • The next wave of crypto ETFs will likely focus on major altcoins like Solana (SOL).
  • The inclusion of staking rewards will be a key feature to watch for. An ETF that captures staking yield will likely outperform one that does not.
  • The approval and launch of these products could bring a new wave of institutional and retail capital into assets beyond Bitcoin and Ethereum.

Macroeconomic Outlook

  • There is a belief that political pressure, particularly from a potential Trump administration, could push the Federal Reserve to cut interest rates significantly (e.g., to 1%). This is seen as highly bullish for risk assets like crypto.
  • However, some panelists argued that the US economy is strong and does not need rate cuts. The real economic driver is seen as massive government spending (fiscal dominance).
  • The continued high levels of government deficit spending are viewed as bullish for assets in the long run, as it may lead to currency debasement.

Takeaways

  • The macroeconomic environment, particularly government spending and Federal Reserve policy, remains a powerful tailwind for crypto assets.
  • Investors should pay close attention to political rhetoric around Fed independence and interest rate policy, as this could be a major catalyst for the market.
  • The "fiscal dominance" thesis suggests that regardless of rate cuts, high government spending will continue to support asset prices.
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Episode Description
Crypto is bleeding into traditional finance faster than anyone expected. In this episode of Bits + Bips, the hosts dig into Robinhood’s move into tokenized stocks and perps, what’s actually holding back tokenized equities, and why perps might “eat the world.”  Plus, they talk crypto ETFs, altcoin summer, and whether staking in ETFs is the next big unlock. Sponsors: Bitwise Hosts: James Seyffart, Research Analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence Ram Ahluwalia, CFA, CEO and Founder of Lumida Noelle Acheson, Author of the “Crypto Is Macro Now” Newsletter  Guest: Thomas Uhm, Chief Commercial Officer at the Jito Foundation Timestamps 🎬 0:00 Intro 👔 2:25 Tom’s path from Jane Street to crypto  💸 5:50 Why Jito’s yield model works + the importance of market makers 📊 12:47 Whether tokenized U.S. stocks actually solve anything for investors 🌍 31:47 Why Tom says “perps are going to eat the world” 🏦 39:25 How perps could sneak their way into traditional finance 📉 41:43 Whether perps are a better instrument than futures 🧠 50:51 Why James thinks we’re heading into an altcoin ETF summer 📥 56:01 How liquid staking is critical in the context of ETFs with staking 📈 1:05:06 Why the S&P 500 keeps hitting all-time highs ⚠️ 1:07:43 Ram lays out the risks of 1% interest rates Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
About Unchained
Unchained

Unchained

By Laura Shin

Crypto assets and blockchain technology are about to transform every trust-based interaction of our lives, from financial services to identity to the Internet of Things. In this podcast, host Laura Shin, an independent journalist covering all things crypto, talks with industry pioneers about how crypto assets and blockchains will change the way we earn, spend and invest our money. Tune in to find out how Web 3.0, the decentralized web, will revolutionize our world. Disclosure: I'm a nocoiner.