Bits + Bips:  How Stocks May Decouple From Bitcoin—and Why TradFi Should Love a HYPE DAT - Ep. 972
Bits + Bips: How Stocks May Decouple From Bitcoin—and Why TradFi Should Love a HYPE DAT - Ep. 972
155 days agoUnchainedLaura Shin
Podcast1 hr 24 min
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Hyperliquid Strategies (PURR) presents a compelling opportunity as it trades at a discount to the value of the HYPE tokens it holds, offering a unique way for investors to gain exposure. The underlying Hyperliquid exchange is fundamentally strong, using over 90% of its massive cash flow to buy back and burn the HYPE token. Consider Coinbase (COIN) as a potential buying opportunity due to the current disconnect between its strong trading revenues and its sentiment-driven stock price. Watch for a potential COIN catalyst in the next two weeks from a company update, which may include an entry into the high-growth prediction markets sector. Finally, investors should position for a potential "altcoin summer" in 2025, which is expected to be triggered by new crypto market regulation.

Detailed Analysis

Coinbase (COIN)

  • An analyst on the show, Owen Lau, covers Coinbase. He notes there are two key factors affecting crypto stocks: macro factors (like interest rates) and company fundamentals.
  • There is currently a very high correlation between the price of Bitcoin and Coinbase's stock. The analyst views this as a sign of market immaturity.
  • An interesting "dislocation" was pointed out: when crypto market volatility is high, Coinbase's trading revenue often goes up, but the stock price may go down along with Bitcoin. This disconnect between fundamentals and sentiment could present an opportunity for investors.
  • Coinbase has been trying for years to break this correlation by diversifying its revenue streams away from just trading fees.
    • They are building out subscription and services revenue.
    • They have a revenue-sharing agreement with Circle for the USDC stablecoin, which provides a more stable and predictable income source not tied to trading volatility.
  • Prediction Markets are seen as a major future growth area for the company.
    • There is speculation that Coinbase is partnering with Kalshi, a major prediction market platform.
    • An announcement about prediction markets, tokenization, or AI integration could come at their system update event in two weeks.
  • The Base Layer 2 network has been successful in gaining traction and attention, but the analyst notes it is still a "long ways away from meaningfully contributing to Coinbase's bottom line."

Takeaways

  • Investors should be aware of the strong correlation between COIN and the price of Bitcoin. The analyst suggests that over the long term, this correlation could break as Coinbase diversifies its business.
  • The current divergence where strong fundamentals (like higher trading revenue during volatility) don't always lead to a higher stock price could be viewed as a potential buying opportunity by investors who focus on fundamentals over market sentiment.
  • Keep an eye out for announcements from Coinbase in the next few weeks regarding a potential entry into the prediction markets space, which could be a significant new revenue driver.
  • While the Base network is a positive development, investors should have a long-term perspective, as it is not expected to be a major profit center in the near future.

Circle (USDC)

  • Circle is the issuer of the USDC stablecoin. The company is currently spending heavily to build out its infrastructure, which creates a "mismatch" between expenses and revenue in the short term.
  • This spending is seen as a positive long-term investment. Key projects include:
    • Building their own Layer 1 blockchain called ARC. The goal is to have USDC run on their own chain to retain more fees, in addition to running on other chains like Ethereum and Solana.
    • Launching the Circle Payments Network to target the massive $40 trillion B2B cross-border payments market. The analyst notes that capturing even a tiny fraction of this market would create billions in new revenue.
  • Despite a bearish crypto market, the market cap of USDC has been increasing. This suggests that money is staying within the crypto ecosystem rather than flowing out to traditional bank accounts.
  • Circle's IPO was mentioned as one of the most successful of all time, with the stock price initially at $32 and now trading in the $80s, even after a significant pullback from its highs.

Takeaways

  • Circle is a long-term play on the growth of blockchain infrastructure and stablecoins. Investors should be prepared for a period where expenses are high as the company invests in future growth.
  • The Circle Payments Network represents a massive opportunity in the $40 trillion B2B payments space. Success here could dramatically increase the company's revenue and valuation.
  • The growing market cap of USDC during a market downturn is a bullish sign for the health of the crypto ecosystem and for Circle's core business.

Bullish

  • Bullish is another crypto exchange covered by the analyst.
  • The analyst's firm recently upgraded the stock because they felt the price was unfairly pushed down by mass liquidations on October 10th, while the company's fundamentals remained strong.
  • The stock has "recovered quite nicely" since that upgrade, suggesting the analyst's call was correct. This was presented as an example of a human investor finding opportunities created by automated, panic-driven selling.
  • The company's IPO price was about $37, and it is currently trading around $48, meaning it is still trading above its initial public offering price.

Takeaways

  • The recent price action in Bullish stock highlights how major market liquidations can create buying opportunities in fundamentally sound companies for investors who can filter out the noise.
  • Like Circle, the stock is still trading above its IPO price, indicating some resilience despite the difficult market for recent crypto IPOs.

Hyperliquid Strategies (PURR)

  • Hyperliquid Strategies (PURR) is a Digital Asset Trust (DAT), which is a company that holds crypto assets and whose stock trades on a traditional exchange like NASDAQ. This makes it easy for regular investors to get exposure to crypto.
  • PURR specifically holds the HYPE token, the native token of the Hyperliquid decentralized exchange (DEX).
  • The speakers describe PURR as being similar to MicroStrategy (MSTR) in its early days, as it provides one of the only easy ways for U.S. investors to get exposure to the HYPE token.
  • The underlying Hyperliquid exchange is described as the "most exciting thing in the digital space today," with incredible fundamentals:
    • Generates over $1 billion in annualized free cash flow with only 11 employees.
    • Uses over 90% of that cash flow to buy back and burn its own HYPE token, which is the economic equivalent of a massive corporate stock buyback program.
  • The PURR stock is currently trading at a "modest discount" to the value of the HYPE tokens it holds, which one speaker called an "awfully interesting entry point opportunity."
  • The trust holds 12.6 million HYPE tokens and $300 million in cash. The tokens are staked to earn yield, which more than covers the company's operating expenses.

Takeaways

  • PURR offers a unique way for U.S. equity investors to gain exposure to the high-growth Hyperliquid ecosystem, which is otherwise difficult to access.
  • The combination of a strong underlying business (Hyperliquid DEX), a massive token buyback program, and the fact that the PURR stock is trading at a discount to its assets makes it a compelling investment case, according to the speakers.
  • Future growth for the Hyperliquid ecosystem is expected to come from real-world assets (like trading NVIDIA and Tesla perps) and new platforms being built on its blockchain, which could further drive the value of the HYPE token.
  • The speakers have a very long-term vision, seeing Hyperliquid as a foundational piece of the future of finance. This is presented as a long-term investment, not a short-term trade.

General Investment Themes

Regulatory Clarity

  • The analyst predicts that a major crypto market structure bill (referred to as the "Clarity Act") will be passed in 2025.
  • This is expected to be a "very strong positive" catalyst for the entire crypto sector.
  • The passage of such a bill could lead to an "altcoin summer," where alternative cryptocurrencies see a significant inflow of capital and price appreciation, much like the stablecoin bill led to a "stablecoin summer."

Prediction Markets

  • This is highlighted as a major growth sector within crypto.
  • Platforms like Polymarket and Kalshi are named as the current leaders and "rising stars."
  • Major exchanges like Coinbase, Robinhood, and Gemini are all moving into this space, signaling its importance.
  • This is seen as a key area for diversification and future revenue growth for crypto platforms.
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Episode Description
In this special double-feature episode of Bits + Bips, Unchained executive editor Steve Ehrlich brings listeners two of the clearest investor perspectives on where the crypto markets may be headed next. First, Owen Lau, Managing Director at Clear Street, breaks down why crypto equities remain so tightly correlated to Bitcoin—and what might finally cause that link to break. He unpacks the growing role of stablecoin revenue, Coinbase and Circle’s evolving business models, and why a market structure bill in 2026 could reshape the sector. Then, in the second half, Bob Diamond and David Schamis of Hyperliquid Strategies explain why they believe Hyperliquid and its HYPE token represent one of the most compelling opportunities in digital assets. They walk through the rationale for their DAT, Hyperliquid’s performance during extreme market volatility, and the broader ecosystem being built through HIP-3 and beyond. Sponsors: Mantle Host: Steve Ehrlich, Executive Editor at Unchained Guests: Owen Lau, Managing Director at Clear Street Bob Diamond, Founding Partner and CEO of Atlas Merchant Capital David Schamis, Founding Partner and CIO of Atlas Merchant Capital Timestamps: 0:00 Introduction 1:23 Owen’s outlook on crypto stocks—and what really drives them today 5:19 Why Coinbase’s stock is struggling while revenue goes up 7:47 Why so many crypto companies are spending heavily to expand distribution 10:58 Whether the 10/10 crash changed how analysts evaluate public crypto companies 14:41 Will public crypto companies enter prediction markets next? 17:02 How Coinbase and Circle are positioning themselves in this emerging area 23:00 What Citadel Securities’ push for SEC regulation of DeFi means for the industry 24:55 How a market structure bill could reshape the outlook for altcoins 27:03 Would a public crypto company buy a DAT trading below its NAV? 28:59 Has the window for crypto IPOs already closed? Part 2  32:57 How David and Bob first got into crypto  38:57 Why a DAT for Hyperliquid is necessary  42:40 Why they say their stock is a major opportunity right now  45:55 How running an altcoin DAT differs from doing one for ETH or BTC  48:54 How the DAT deal was structured—and Paradigm’s role  51:38 How they’re avoiding the big sell-offs typical in PIPE deals  53:11 Why there was a gap between announcing the DAT and executing it  55:14 Why Sonnet Therapeutics will remain operational post-transaction  57:51 Why the 10/10 liquidation event made Bob more confident in Hyperliquid  1:04:19 The broader Hyperliquid ecosystem—far beyond the DEX  1:06:42 Why David says perps are far better products than options  1:10:12 Why regulatory clarity is critical for Hyperliquid’s long-term success  1:13:37 What HIP-3 unlocks for builders building around perps  1:14:46 How prediction markets could integrate with perpetuals  1:15:49 How Hyperliquid can compete with major exchanges and crypto giants  1:21:18 Why Hyperliquid’s feed is so much faster than other chains  1:22:28 The $1 billion shelf offering—and how they plan to accumulate more HYPE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
About Unchained
Unchained

Unchained

By Laura Shin

Crypto assets and blockchain technology are about to transform every trust-based interaction of our lives, from financial services to identity to the Internet of Things. In this podcast, host Laura Shin, an independent journalist covering all things crypto, talks with industry pioneers about how crypto assets and blockchains will change the way we earn, spend and invest our money. Tune in to find out how Web 3.0, the decentralized web, will revolutionize our world. Disclosure: I'm a nocoiner.