Bits + Bips: DATs Are Crypto's Biggest Trend. So Why Aren't They Boosting Markets? - Ep. 865
Bits + Bips: DATs Are Crypto's Biggest Trend. So Why Aren't They Boosting Markets? - Ep. 865
304 days agoUnchainedLaura Shin
Podcast1 hr 20 min
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

The prevailing view is to remain invested in the current bull market and consider buying on dips. Treat Bitcoin (BTC) as a maturing macro asset for portfolio diversification with a 2-4% allocation, rather than as a short-term speculative trade. For high-risk traders seeking volatility, consider crypto-related stocks like MicroStrategy (MSTR), which offer leveraged exposure to the crypto theme. Gain exposure to the AI trend through established public stocks like NVIDIA (NVDA), while avoiding AI-themed crypto tokens which currently lack substance. It is best to avoid broad exposure to most altcoins, as a widespread "altcoin season" is considered unlikely this year.

Detailed Analysis

Macro & Market Outlook

  • Trump's Tariffs: The general consensus among the speakers is that the recent tariff threats are "more theater than substance." They expect negotiations and extensions, noting that Trump has an incentive to keep stock markets high. The impact on inflation has been minimal so far.
    • However, they acknowledge the market is "fragile," and if the threats become more serious, the reaction could be significant.
  • U.S. Dollar: A contrarian view presented is that "the death of the U.S. dollar is greatly exaggerated." Despite a poor first half of the year, the U.S. still offers higher short-term interest rates and better growth options than many other parts of the world.
  • Market Sentiment: The speakers are generally constructive and bullish. One guest states, "it's a bull market... fade the fud... you should be buying dips." They note that despite markets being at all-time highs, investor positioning is still relatively low, suggesting there is more room to run.

Takeaways

  • Tariff Risk: While the base case is that a full-blown trade war will be avoided, investors should be aware of the "left-tail risk." A potential hedge mentioned is diversifying into international value stocks with momentum, such as banks in countries like Brazil, South Korea, Italy, and the UK, which could benefit from a cheaper dollar.
  • U.S. Dollar Position: Consider a contrarian long position on the U.S. dollar, betting against the popular narrative of its decline.
  • Overall Strategy: The prevailing view is to remain invested and buy on dips, as the broader market trend is considered strong. The political environment is seen as supportive of markets leading into the mid-term elections.

Bitcoin (BTC)

  • Asset Profile: Bitcoin is described as a "macro asset" that has "very clearly decoupled from the rest of what's happening in crypto."
  • Institutional Adoption: There are significant and persistent inflows into Bitcoin ETFs from both institutional and retail investors. It is being added to portfolios as a "must-own" asset, typically at a 2-4% allocation.
  • Volatility Suppression: Due to institutional involvement and the creation of structured products (like covered call strategies on ETFs), Bitcoin's realized volatility has "plummeted."
    • The speaker notes that the days of Bitcoin going up 10x are "likely way behind us" as the asset matures.
  • Dominance: The speakers believe Bitcoin's dominance will remain high for "quite some time," which is a primary reason they are skeptical of a broad-based "altcoin season."

Takeaways

  • Portfolio Role: View Bitcoin as a maturing macro asset for portfolio diversification, similar to digital gold, rather than a high-volatility speculative play.
  • Volatility Exposure: For investors seeking higher volatility, the discussion suggests that the "volatility has transferred" from spot Bitcoin to publicly traded crypto-related stocks (see Digital Asset Treasuries section below).
  • Market Indicator: Bitcoin's price action is driven by macro factors and institutional flows, not necessarily by on-chain activity in the broader crypto ecosystem.

Altcoins & On-Chain Activity

  • Market Bifurcation: The market is split between Bitcoin and everything else. Beyond Bitcoin and a few major smart contract platforms like Solana and Ethereum, the rest of the market is "really struggling."
  • Lack of On-Chain Activity: There is "no on-chain activity" and "basically no volume whatsoever on chain." The volume has moved to centralized companies and public markets.
  • Product-Market Fit (PMF): The era of tokens trading on "future hope" without a real product is "going away." Projects without genuine PMF are finding it difficult to attract investment and trading interest.
  • Altcoin Season: One speaker is adamant that there "is not going to be an altcoin season this year" because Bitcoin's dominance hasn't peaked. Another speaker believes some alts with strong fundamentals will get a bid, but it will be highly selective.

Takeaways

  • Be Selective: The strategy of buying a broad basket of altcoins and expecting them to rise with the market is no longer viable. Investors need to be highly selective and focus on projects with demonstrable product-market fit and real revenue or user traction.
  • Avoid Hype: Be cautious of tokens without a clear, working product. The market is maturing and is no longer rewarding pure speculation on "future hope."
  • Monitor On-Chain Data: The lack of on-chain volume is a significant headwind for most altcoins. An increase in on-chain activity could signal a potential turnaround.

Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs) & Crypto Stocks

  • The New Volatility Hub: The extreme volatility historically seen in crypto spot markets has shifted to publicly traded crypto-related stocks, also called Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs).
    • The charts of these stocks are compared to "charts of shit coins four years ago," with incredible moves, drops, and crazy swings.
  • Key Players Mentioned:
    • MicroStrategy (MSTR): The canonical example. Its stock has "dramatically" outperformed Bitcoin, and its annualized volatility is around 100% compared to Bitcoin's 50%.
    • Core Scientific (CORZ): Was acquired by CoreWeave (a private AI company) in an all-stock deal. This is seen as a play for Core Scientific's data centers and energy hookups for AI computing, not for Bitcoin mining. The deal implies Core Scientific will shut down its crypto mining business.
    • BitDigital (BTBT): A miner that pivoted to become an Ethereum treasury company.
  • Mechanics & Risk: The high volatility is driven by deal structures like reverse takeovers (RTOs) and SPACs, PIPE deals (private investment in public equity), and the fact that many are low-float stocks. This can lead to massive price swings when volume increases.

Takeaways

  • High-Risk, High-Reward: For traders seeking volatility, DATs and crypto-related stocks are the new frontier. These are not buy-and-hold investments for the faint of heart.
  • Understand the Business Model: Investors should analyze whether these companies are pure-play crypto treasuries, miners, or pivoting to other sectors like AI. The CoreWeave/Core Scientific deal highlights that the underlying value may be in the infrastructure (data centers, energy access) for AI, not crypto mining.
  • Capital Flow: The money flowing into these public market deals (via PIPEs) is capital that is not being deployed into crypto VC or crypto spot markets, potentially acting as a drain on the native crypto ecosystem.

Tokenized Equities & Securities

  • A Long-Term Trend, Not a Current Reality: The idea of tokenizing assets like stocks has been around since at least 2016. While the long-term vision is powerful, the infrastructure is not yet ready for mass adoption.
  • The Robinhood (HOOD) Example: Robinhood's plan to offer a derivative tracking OpenAI shares highlights the intense competition among platforms like Coinbase (COIN) and Kraken to offer new, attractive products.
  • The Institutional Barrier: The biggest hurdle is that traditional financial firms' back-office systems are not built for 24/7 settlement. One speaker noted it took a top trading firm two years just to get its systems ready to handle stablecoins. This technical debt is a massive drag on adoption.
  • Solving a Real Problem: For tokenized equities to take off, they need to offer a product that works for institutions, who drive the vast majority of trading volume. The current products are seen as "sub-par" and don't fit the risk or operational parameters of large firms.
  • Solana vs. L2s: Kraken launched tokenized stocks as SPL tokens on Solana, allowing for open experimentation. This approach saw its volume quickly dwarf that of Coinbase's Base L2. Other platforms like Robinhood are launching their own L2s to have more control over the environment, which is necessary for regulatory and compliance reasons but may stifle innovation.

Takeaways

  • Invest in the "Picks and Shovels": The immediate investment opportunity may not be in the tokenized assets themselves, but in the platforms and infrastructure being built. This includes public companies like COIN and HOOD, and the underlying smart contract platforms like Ethereum (ETH) and Solana (SOL).
  • Long-Term Vision: Tokenization remains a powerful, long-term thesis. The ability to have programmable, 24/7, atomically settled assets is a fundamentally better infrastructure. Investors should monitor for the "killer app" or use case that forces institutional adoption.
  • Private vs. Public: The most compelling initial use case for tokenization may be in providing access to private market assets (like pre-IPO shares or private credit) rather than publicly traded stocks like Apple, which are already easily accessible.

AI Tokens vs. AI Stocks

  • Clear Divergence: There is a major performance gap between AI-related public stocks and AI-themed crypto tokens.
    • AI Stocks: Companies like NVIDIA (NVDA) are hitting all-time highs.
    • AI Tokens: Most major AI tokens were down 20-40% over the last month at the time of recording.
  • Lack of Substance: The speakers are highly skeptical of AI tokens, describing them as having no real PMF (Product-Market Fit) and being little more than "AI agent chatbots with meme coins attached."

Takeaways

  • Focus on Public Equities: The real investment opportunity in the AI trend appears to be in established public companies like NVIDIA and infrastructure plays like CoreWeave's acquisition of Core Scientific (CORZ) for its data centers.
  • Be Wary of AI Tokens: Investors should be extremely cautious with AI-themed cryptocurrencies, as the consensus is that they currently lack real-world utility and are purely speculative narrative plays.
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Episode Description
In this episode of Bits + Bips, we examine how rising global trade tensions could impact macro conditions, the Fed’s next move, and market stability. We also explore how investors should position themselves with inflation cooling and an uncertain policy path at the Fed. We then look at what’s happening on the crypto side: volume shifting to tokenized public equities, the growing number of corporate stablecoin plans, and whether the promise of tokenization is matched by meaningful traction. Joining hosts Joe McCann, Ram Ahluwalia, and Steve Ehrlich is Rob Hadick of Dragonfly, who shares his perspective on product-market fit in crypto, shifting market structure, and where real adoption may emerge. Sponsor: Bitwise Joe McCann, Founder, CEO, and CIO of Asymmetric Ram Ahluwalia, CFA, CEO and Founder of Lumida Steve Ehrlich, Executive Editor at Unchained Rob Hadick, General Partner at Dragonfly LINKS: WSJ: Trump Faces Crucial Week for Reaching Trade Deals EU Still Hopes for Initial U.S. Trade Deal Before Deadline Reuters: Japan, South Korea face 25% tariffs as Trump ramps up trade war in letters to 14 nations CNN: Trump announces new tariffs of up to 40% on a growing number of countries University of Washington: OBBB Signed Into Law Unchained:  OpenAI Says Robinhood’s Stock Tokens Are Not Equity Tron Is Now More Expensive Than Ethereum. Will That Hurt Justin Sun’s New Company? AI Crypto Tokens Swoon as Nvidia Reaches a New All-Time High CoinDesk: CoreWeave to Acquire Core Scientific in $9B All-Stock Deal The Block: Bit Digital swaps entire treasury into Ethereum, says it's now a top public ETH holder after a $173 million splurge Timestamps: 🎬 0:00 Intro 🎭 2:05 Why Ram sees the tariff drama as more theater than substance 🎌 7:09 Whether Trump is leveraging tariffs ahead of Japan’s elections 📉 8:17 How low inflation is pressuring Jerome Powell and the Fed’s next move ⚠️ 12:06 Why Rob says the market feels “fragile” right now 🪙 14:52 Whether bitcoin has truly matured into a macro asset 🛡️ 22:16 How to hedge in an uncertain landscape, and what to make of Elon’s political pivot 💵 30:05 Whether Elon Musk is preparing to launch a stablecoin on X 📊 32:26 Why digital asset treasury companies are so volatile, and how these deals really work 🧱 39:44 How the tokenization race is unfolding, and whether innovation is keeping up 🧠 47:47 How to think about investing in the tokenized assets and stablecoin narrative 🕳️ 1:01:47 Whether tokenized equities have any real killer use ⛏️ 1:03:54 What the CoreWeave-Core Scientific deal signals for bitcoin mining 📈 1:13:08 Whether we’re still in a bull market, and if now’s the time to take advantage of dip opportunities Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
About Unchained
Unchained

Unchained

By Laura Shin

Crypto assets and blockchain technology are about to transform every trust-based interaction of our lives, from financial services to identity to the Internet of Things. In this podcast, host Laura Shin, an independent journalist covering all things crypto, talks with industry pioneers about how crypto assets and blockchains will change the way we earn, spend and invest our money. Tune in to find out how Web 3.0, the decentralized web, will revolutionize our world. Disclosure: I'm a nocoiner.