Santiago Santos: My New Crypto Investing Playbook
Santiago Santos: My New Crypto Investing Playbook
Podcast40 min 25 sec
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Consider prioritizing investments in application-layer protocols over foundational blockchains like Ethereum (ETH) and Solana (SOL), which face intense competition and poor value capture. Look for projects with equity-like token models, such as Hyperliquid, which uses buybacks and strategic reinvestment to directly benefit token holders. The investment case for ETH is particularly weak, as its token fails to effectively compound value from network growth and suffers from slow governance. For a more traditional approach, a basket of "crypto-enabled" stocks like Visa or BlackRock may outperform most tokens by using blockchain to improve their core business. While promising, protocols like Aave (AAVE) and Uniswap (UNI) are only strong investments if they fix their tokenomics to better capture the value they generate.

Detailed Analysis

Investment Theme: Tokens vs. Equities

The central thesis of the discussion is that most crypto tokens are fundamentally flawed as long-term investments compared to traditional equities.

  • Tokens Don't Compound Value: Unlike stocks, tokens are not designed to capture and compound value. When a protocol generates revenue (fees), that value is often distributed or burned, but not strategically reinvested to grow the business in the same way a company like Amazon or Google reinvests profits.
    • The speaker calls tokens "uninvestable" in their current form for a long-term, buy-and-hold strategy.
    • They are compared to variable coupon bonds rather than equity, as they provide a yield based on network activity but don't grant ownership in a compounding enterprise.
  • "Value Leakage" is a Major Problem: Often, the core development team is a separate entity (e.g., Uniswap Labs) from the token. When major events happen, like an acquisition, the value goes to the equity holders of the company, not the token holders.
    • Example: Coinbase bought the team behind the NFT marketplace Tensor, acquiring the equity, not the token.
  • Crypto Has Rewarded Traders, Not Investors: The nature of tokens and market cycles has favored active trading (buying and selling) over long-term ownership, with the exception of Bitcoin.

Takeaways

  • Consider "Crypto-Enabled" Stocks: The speaker strongly believes a basket of public companies that use crypto infrastructure will outperform a basket of tokens. These companies (Visa, BlackRock, etc.) can use blockchain to cut costs and improve margins, directly benefiting their stock price.
  • Scrutinize Tokenomics: Before investing in any token, ask how it captures and reinvests value. Simple fee burns or distributions to stakers are not enough. Look for mechanisms that act like share buybacks or strategic reinvestment of profits into growth.
  • Be an Owner, Not Just a Holder: The goal for a long-term investor should be to own assets that become more valuable over time as the underlying system grows. Most current tokens do not meet this criterion.

Investment Theme: Infrastructure vs. Applications

There is a significant valuation disconnect within the crypto market between the foundational blockchains (infrastructure) and the applications built on top of them.

  • Infrastructure is Overvalued: Layer 1 (L1) blockchains like Ethereum and Solana represent approximately 90% of the crypto market cap (excluding Bitcoin) but are capturing a shrinking percentage of the total fees generated in the ecosystem.
  • Value Flows to Applications: The majority of revenue is flowing "upstream" to DeFi protocols and other applications that directly serve users. These applications are the ones "owning the customer."
  • Infrastructure is Becoming a Commodity: It is now easier than ever to launch a new blockchain. This creates immense competition, driving down the cost of block space in a "race to the bottom." The speaker's core trade is to be long applications and short infrastructure.

Takeaways

  • Focus on the Application Layer: Investors should look for opportunities in protocols that have a clear product-market fit and are generating real revenue, such as decentralized exchanges, lending platforms, and other DeFi services.
  • Be Wary of L1 Investments: While L1s are essential, their tokens may not be the best investment. Their value is being diluted by intense competition and the fact that applications, not the L1s themselves, are capturing most of the economic value.

Ethereum (ETH)

The speaker expresses a fundamentally bearish view on ETH as a long-term investment due to its flawed tokenomics and slow governance.

  • Poor Value Accrual:
    • The fee burn mechanism (EIP-1559) is seen as a step in the right direction but is insufficient for true value compounding.
    • Validator rewards are described as an operating cost, similar to "paying rent" to keep the network secure. This is money leaving the ecosystem, not being reinvested to grow it for token holders.
  • Slow Decision-Making: Ethereum's decentralized governance is a major drawback. It took six years to execute The Merge, highlighting an inability to adapt and innovate quickly compared to more centralized competitors or traditional companies.
  • Losing Its Core Customer: The speaker notes that the Ethereum community and even its founder have seemed "dismissive of DeFi," which is the network's primary and most successful use case.

Takeaways

  • ETH May Underperform: Despite its importance, the ETH token could underperform the applications built on it and the "crypto-enabled" equities (like BlackRock) that use its network.
  • The Token is Not the Network: It's possible for the Ethereum network to see a 100x growth in users and activity, while the ETH token itself stagnates or declines due to its inability to capture that value. An investor must separate the utility of the network from the investment merits of the token.

Hyperliquid

Hyperliquid is highlighted as a positive outlier and a potential model for how tokens should be structured. The sentiment is very bullish.

  • Acts Like Equity: The speaker states Hyperliquid is "as close as you are ever going to get to being like an equity" in the crypto space.
  • Strong, Centralized Team: It is run by a small, effective team of engineers that moves fast and makes strategic decisions to benefit the protocol, such as running a stablecoin RFP to capture more value.
  • Effective Value Accrual: The protocol's use of buybacks has a much more direct and positive impact on the token's value compared to the mechanisms used by protocols like Ethereum.

Takeaways

  • A Model to Watch: Investors should look for projects that emulate Hyperliquid's structure: a fast-moving, centralized team focused on product and direct value reinvestment into the token.
  • "Perps" are a Killer Category: The protocol benefits from operating in the perpetual futures (perps) market, which is one of crypto's most successful and profitable sectors.

Other Assets Mentioned

  • Bitcoin (BTC):
    • Viewed as a unique asset in crypto, analogous to digital gold. Its primary use case is speculative and as a store of value, not as a technology platform. This separates it from all other crypto assets that are competing to be tech stocks.
  • Aave (AAVE) & Uniswap (UNI):
    • These are examples of valuable application-layer protocols that are capturing significant value.
    • However, they are "conditionally bullish" investments. Their long-term success as investments depends entirely on whether they can "sort their token" to fix the value leakage and better align the token's performance with the protocol's success.
  • Solana (SOL):
    • Grouped with Ethereum as an L1 infrastructure play that suffers from the "commoditization" thesis. While its more centralized team allows it to move faster, its token faces the same fundamental value accrual challenges.
  • Stablecoins (USDC, etc.):
    • The speaker is incredibly bullish on the growth of stablecoins, predicting their use in the real economy will grow by 100x over the next decade.
    • Takeaway: This is a massive trend, but it's difficult to invest in directly. The best way to play this trend is by investing in the companies and applications that will use stablecoins to improve their business, not by holding the stablecoins themselves.
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Episode Description
Crypto's valuation disconnect is real. Santiago Roel Santos breaks down why tokens don't compound value like equities, how infrastructure became commoditized, and where actual value capture happens now. DeFi applications are criminally undervalued while L1s trade at 90% of market cap despite shrinking fee share. We cover: - Why Infrastructure Became Commoditized - The Token vs Equity Design Flaw - DeFi Apps Are Criminally Undervalued - L1s Capture 10% of Fees But Hold 90% of Market Cap - Hyperliquid's Equity-Like Model - What Crypto-Enabled Businesses Will Win - The Next Wave Beyond Stablecoins & Perps The Rollup Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:40 The Great Valuation Disconnect 04:29 Adoption vs Value Capture Problem 06:30 Equities Using Crypto Outperform Tokens 08:39 L1 Fee Share Collapse 11:40 Why Tokens Don't Compound Value 14:17 The Ethereum Fee Burn Misconception 17:51 infiniFi, Hibachi Ads 18:23 How Tokens Should Be Designed 21:17 Security Markets & Tax Rates 23:56 Infrastructure Commoditization Thesis 24:45 YEET, Trezor Ads 27:26 The Supply Dynamics Everyone Ignores 29:00 Stablecoin Growth Trajectory 32:56 Crypto vs Equity Decision Framework 34:39 DeFi's Underappreciation Problem 37:15 Speed of Decision-Making Matters 38:38 Closing Thoughts Website: https://therollup.co/ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd... Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco Follow Rob on X: https://www.x.com/robbie_rollup Follow Andy on X: https://www.x.com/ayyyeandy Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures ๐——๐—œ๐—ฆ๐—–๐—Ÿ๐—”๐—œ๐— ๐—˜๐—ฅ: ๐˜๐˜ฏ๐˜ท๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜จ ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜ค๐˜ณ๐˜บ๐˜ฑ๐˜ต๐˜ฐ๐˜ค๐˜ถ๐˜ณ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฏ๐˜ค๐˜บ ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜‹๐˜ฆ๐˜๐˜ช ๐˜ฑ๐˜ญ๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ง๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ฎ๐˜ด ๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜ฎ๐˜ฆ๐˜ด ๐˜ธ๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜ฉ ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฏ๐˜ต ๐˜ณ๐˜ช๐˜ด๐˜ฌ๐˜ด ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜ค๐˜ญ๐˜ถ๐˜ฅ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜จ ๐˜ต๐˜ฆ๐˜ค๐˜ฉ๐˜ฏ๐˜ช๐˜ค๐˜ข๐˜ญ ๐˜ณ๐˜ช๐˜ด๐˜ฌ, ๐˜ฉ๐˜ถ๐˜ฎ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ ๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ๐˜ณ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ, ๐˜ฑ๐˜ญ๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ง๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ฎ ๐˜ง๐˜ข๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ถ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ฎ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ. ๐˜ˆ๐˜ต ๐˜ค๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ๐˜ต๐˜ข๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜ฑ๐˜ฐ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ณ๐˜ฐ๐˜ถ๐˜จ๐˜ฉ๐˜ฐ๐˜ถ๐˜ต ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ช๐˜ด ๐˜ค๐˜ฉ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ฏ๐˜ฆ๐˜ญ, ๐˜ธ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ฎ๐˜ข๐˜บ ๐˜ฆ๐˜ข๐˜ณ๐˜ฏ ๐˜ข ๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜ฎ๐˜ฎ๐˜ช๐˜ด๐˜ด๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ ๐˜ง๐˜ฆ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ข๐˜ด ๐˜ข ๐˜ด๐˜ฑ๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ๐˜ด๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ด๐˜ฉ๐˜ช๐˜ฑ, ๐˜ช๐˜ง ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ช๐˜ด ๐˜ช๐˜ด ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ค๐˜ข๐˜ด๐˜ฆ ๐˜ธ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ธ๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ญ ๐˜ข๐˜ญ๐˜ธ๐˜ข๐˜บ๐˜ด ๐˜ฎ๐˜ข๐˜ฌ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ด๐˜ถ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ช๐˜ต ๐˜ช๐˜ด ๐˜ค๐˜ญ๐˜ฆ๐˜ข๐˜ณ. ๐˜ž๐˜ฆ ๐˜ข๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ณ๐˜ช๐˜ค๐˜ต๐˜ญ๐˜บ ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฅ๐˜ถ๐˜ค๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ๐˜ข๐˜ญ ๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ๐˜ต๐˜ฆ๐˜ฏ๐˜ต ๐˜ฑ๐˜ญ๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ง๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ฎ, ๐˜ฏ๐˜ฐ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜จ ๐˜ธ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง๐˜ง๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ ๐˜ช๐˜ด ๐˜ง๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ค๐˜ช๐˜ข๐˜ญ ๐˜ข๐˜ฅ๐˜ท๐˜ช๐˜ค๐˜ฆ. ๐˜ž๐˜ฆ ๐˜ข๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ฏ๐˜ฐ๐˜ต ๐˜ฑ๐˜ณ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ด๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ๐˜ข๐˜ญ๐˜ด ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ค๐˜ฆ๐˜ฏ๐˜ด๐˜ฆ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ข๐˜ฅ๐˜ท๐˜ช๐˜ด๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ด.
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