Matt Hougan & Sal Ternullo: NEAR Is One Of The Best Positioned Assets In Crypto
Matt Hougan & Sal Ternullo: NEAR Is One Of The Best Positioned Assets In Crypto
Podcast35 min 8 sec
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights
  • The strongest specific opportunity is NEAR: consider exposure only if you can tolerate crypto volatility, and track NEAR Intents usage and revenue as evidence the rally is supported by adoption; no entry price or price target was provided.
  • For brokerage-based exposure, compare Bitwise NEAR ETF (NRR) with direct ownership, including its 0.75% fee and targeted—but not guaranteed—staking rewards of roughly 5%.
  • Treat NEAR’s proposed inflation cut to 1.6% over two years and potential future AI fee revenue as catalysts to monitor, not confirmed developments.
  • Stablecoins and tokenized finance offer a longer-term theme, but adoption and investment outcomes remain dependent on regulation and market development.
Detailed Analysis

NEAR Protocol (NEAR)

  • The guests were bullish on NEAR, describing its recent rally as a repricing of growing usage and revenue from NEAR Intents, which helps users interact across different blockchains.
    • They said the asset had been fundamentally mispriced and pointed to increasing usage as evidence of product-market fit.
    • They also see NEAR’s privacy-focused AI infrastructure and agentic-economy applications as longer-term potential, on top of the existing Intents business.
  • They cited NEAR’s private-inference technology as a way for users to verify that operators cannot see prompts or outputs. They said usage rose sharply after the product became available through OpenRouter.
  • Token economics are also under discussion:
    • NEAR’s network inflation was reduced from 5% to 2.5% in October of the prior year.
    • A proposal to reduce inflation from 2.5% to 1.6% over two years was published in the governance forum; it was a proposal, not a confirmed change.
    • Intents already has a fee mechanism that supports programmatic buybacks. The guests discussed broader value accrual to token holders, while noting debate over whether bought-back tokens should be burned or retained.
    • A fee switch for NEAR’s AI products was discussed as a future possibility, contingent on the products reaching sufficient scale.
  • The guests cited a recent 100%–150% move and an approximately 30–45-day repricing period, but gave no price target or specific entry point.
  • They described the market as increasingly selective: projects with measurable usage and revenue may outperform, while weaker projects could fall behind.

Takeaways

  • For investors considering NEAR, the discussion suggests monitoring Intents usage and revenue, AI product adoption, and whether proposed tokenomics changes are approved and implemented.
  • Treat the AI and agentic-economy opportunity as long-term potential, not as established revenue: the guests characterized broader value accrual from AI products as dependent on future scale.
  • The speakers were positive, but did not provide a price target or discuss NEAR-specific downside risks.

Bitwise NEAR ETF (NRR)

  • The guests described NRR as a US spot NEAR exchange-traded product listed on NYSE Arca and available through major brokerage accounts.
  • The product details stated in the transcript were:
    • 0.75% management fee
    • In-house staking, targeting roughly 5% rewards
    • Staking rewards accrue to shareholders through the fund’s net asset value (NAV)
  • Bitwise said it selects assets for ETPs based on its view of their long-term prospects and community support. The firm had previously offered a European NEAR ETP and described NRR as a way for traditional investors to access NEAR through a brokerage account.

Takeaways

  • NRR may offer a more familiar brokerage-based route to NEAR exposure for investors who prefer an exchange-traded product over holding tokens directly.
  • Compare the 0.75% fee, staking treatment, and product structure with other ways of gaining NEAR exposure before investing. The transcript provides no guarantee that the targeted staking rewards will be achieved.

Sovereign

  • Sal described Sovereign as a NEAR treasury company and an active participant in the ecosystem, including governance.
  • He distinguished its exposure from NRR: Sovereign is building an operating business, while NRR is intended to provide more straightforward exposure to NEAR and its yield.

Takeaways

  • The transcript presents Sovereign as a different type of NEAR-related exposure than an ETF, but gives no financial performance, valuation, or ticker information.
  • Investors would need to assess the company’s business and governance participation separately from the value of NEAR itself.

Stablecoins and Tokenized Finance

  • The guests were bullish on the long-term stablecoin opportunity, arguing that virtual cards and tokenized deposits may serve as stepping stones rather than displacing stablecoins.
  • They discussed stablecoins’ potential role in payments and in demand for short-term US Treasury bills. One guest cited a San Francisco Fed chart suggesting stablecoins could help fill a gap left by reduced Chinese purchases of US Treasuries.
  • They said the pace of adoption could be affected by regulatory capture and pushback, particularly in the US.
  • The discussion also pointed to growing institutional interest in putting financial activity on-chain, including tokenized assets and 24/7 markets.

Takeaways

  • The investment theme is broader than any one stablecoin: monitor adoption in payments, tokenized assets, and institutional settlement, as well as the regulatory environment.
  • The guests’ view was that virtual cards and tokenized deposits may coexist with stablecoins; the transcript does not identify specific stablecoin issuers or recommend a particular token.

Hyperliquid (HYPE)

  • Hyperliquid was cited as an example of a project whose value-accrual mechanics helped inspire discussion about returning value to token holders.
  • A guest suggested that the market’s response to such mechanisms may encourage other crypto projects to improve their tokenomics.

Takeaways

  • The discussion highlights token-holder value accrual as a factor investors may want to examine when comparing crypto projects.
  • No price target or direct recommendation for Hyperliquid was given.

Solana (SOL)

  • Solana was mentioned as a comparison for NEAR’s proposed reduction in inflation. The guest said NEAR’s proposal was similar to a change recently approved in the Solana ecosystem.

Takeaways

  • The reference is limited to token-supply policy; the transcript offers no broader view, price target, or recommendation for SOL.

Bitcoin (BTC)

  • Bitcoin was mentioned as a comparison point for assessing NEAR’s value relative to dollars and other crypto assets, not as a specific investment recommendation.

Takeaways

  • The discussion provides no Bitcoin-specific thesis or price outlook.

24/7 Markets and Tokenized Assets

  • The guests saw potential benefits from markets operating around the clock, including more trading activity, liquidity, and ways to use financial assets.
  • They also identified a specific risk: leverage combined with low liquidity can lead to sharp market disruptions or liquidity cascades. They expect this risk to extend to traditional markets as they move toward 24/7 trading.
  • They noted that financial institutions may need time to develop staffing, risk management, and compliance processes for responding to incidents outside traditional market hours.

Takeaways

  • Tokenized assets and 24/7 trading are potential long-term investment themes, but investors should also consider how extended trading hours could affect liquidity and volatility.
  • The transcript’s stated risk is clearest for leveraged markets during periods of low liquidity; it does not quantify that risk or provide a timeline for adoption.
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Episode Description
With 130% dispersion between the best and worst of the top 20 assets over 30 days, Matt Hougan calls that the healthiest signal digital assets has produced in a decade, because it means fundamentals finally drive price. He says the bottom was June, the bull market has started, and the next leg comes from wire house advisors allocating in Q4. Sal Ternullo walks through why Near was mispriced against its intents revenue, the inflation reduction proposal taking emissions from 2.5% to 1.6%, and why the real repricing comes when the AI fee switch flips. They also get into Bitwise's new NRR ETF, 24/7 markets, and why virtual cards won't slow stablecoins down. Matt Hougan is the Chief Investment Officer at Bitwise. Sal Ternullo is the CEO of SVRN. The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:08 NEAR Intents Revenue Finally Repriced 04:16 Bitwise Was Eyeing NEAR For A While 06:13 Bitwise Brings NEAR To Every Brokerage 08:14 Staking Yield Accrues To Shareholders Automatically 10:33 Not All Digital Assets Are Created Equal 14:55 NEAR Is The AI Call Option Thesis 18:14 Sovereign And Bitwise Are Not Competing 22:09 Institutional Demand Is Just Beginning 26:14 24/7 Markets Need Agentic Infrastructure 30:33 Banks Cannot Staff Saturday Night Risk 32:53 Agents Will Monitor When Humans Sleep Guest Socials: Matt Hougan X: https://x.com/Matt_Hougan Bitwise X: https://x.com/Bitwise Bitwise Website: https://bitwiseinvestments.com/ Sal Ternullo X: https://x.com/sal_ternullo SVRN X: https://x.com/svrn_ai SVRN Website: https://svrn.net/ Partners: If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua --- Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/ --- Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data. --- Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain. Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/ --- 𝗦𝘂𝗽𝗽𝗼𝗿𝘁 𝘂𝘀 𝗯𝘆 𝗰𝗹𝗶𝗰𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗮𝗻𝘆 𝗼𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗸𝘀 𝗯𝗲𝗹𝗼𝘄 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗳𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗼𝘂𝗿𝗰𝗲𝘀: Website: https://therollup.co/ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd... Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures 𝗗𝗜𝗦𝗖𝗟𝗔𝗜𝗠𝗘𝗥: 𝘐𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘳𝘺𝘱𝘵𝘰𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘋𝘦𝘍𝘪 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬𝘴 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘭𝘶𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘩𝘯𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬, 𝘩𝘶𝘮𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘰𝘳, 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮 𝘧𝘢𝘪𝘭𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦. 𝘈𝘵 𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘭, 𝘸𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘺 𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘯 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘳 𝘧𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘴 𝘢 𝘴𝘱𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘱, 𝘪𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 𝘮𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘳. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮, 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘦 𝘰𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘤𝘦. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘧𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘰𝘳 𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴.
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