Haseeb Qureshi: The Meteoric Rise of Perps (And The Next Massive Move)
Haseeb Qureshi: The Meteoric Rise of Perps (And The Next Massive Move)
Podcast31 min 8 sec
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Focus on Ethereum (ETH) as a core long-term holding, as its "Manhattan" model ensures high-value transactions will continue to subsidize the network regardless of short-term volatility. For active traders, decentralized perpetual exchanges like Hyperliquid and Lighter offer the best relative strength due to diversified revenue from Real World Assets (RWAs) and trading volume. Treat Bitcoin (BTC) as a high-beta risk asset rather than a hedge, as it remains highly sensitive to "higher for longer" interest rate sentiment and macro liquidity. Consider Binance Coin (BNB) for exposure to the industry's largest profit-generating business, which remains undervalued by many Western investors. Monitor the recent sell-off in Zcash (ZEC) as a potential overreaction to technical misunderstandings, offering a tactical opportunity for those tracking privacy assets.

Detailed Analysis

This analysis summarizes the investment insights from the podcast episode featuring Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly. The discussion focuses on the current macro environment, the resilience of decentralized perpetual exchanges (Perps), and the long-term value proposition of major L1 assets.


Macro Environment & Bitcoin (BTC)

Bitcoin is currently behaving as a risk asset rather than a "digital gold" or a hedge against geopolitical conflict. • The primary driver for the current downturn is macroeconomic pressure, specifically the "higher for longer" interest rate sentiment following strong jobs reports. • Sentiment: Bearish in the short term due to potential rate hikes, but fundamentally unchanged for long-term holders.

Takeaways

Ignore "Honest Macro" Narratives: Qureshi disagrees with the idea that Bitcoin is a leading indicator of economic health; it is currently driven by the absence of retail investors and macro liquidity. • Retail Absence: The market is currently "insider-driven" (pro traders and VCs), which leads to high volatility and "stabbing each other" for relative strength in specific coins.


Perpetual Exchanges (Perps) - Hyperliquid & Lighter

Perps have emerged as the "revenue category leaders" in the current market. • Hyperliquid and Lighter are highlighted as top-tier assets because they have diversified revenue streams, including Real World Assets (RWAs). • These platforms are showing "relative strength" because their revenue isn't 100% tied to the price of Bitcoin; they profit from trading volume and volatility across various asset classes.

Takeaways

Revenue Diversification: Look for protocols that offer exposure to non-crypto assets (RWAs). This allows them to survive "crypto winters" better than pure-play DeFi protocols like Uniswap or Aave. • Regulatory Risk: There is a looming "onshore vs. offshore" divide. US-regulated perps (like Kalshi) will likely require full KYC and lower leverage, meaning offshore platforms will likely retain the "degen" high-leverage market. • Investment Strategy: While these are strong "cash flow" businesses, they may not command the same valuation multiples as "Big Tech" because their long-term (20-year) moat is harder to predict compared to base-layer infrastructure.


Ethereum (ETH) & Layer 1 (L1) Thesis

• Despite the rise of high-revenue apps, Qureshi remains bullish on Ethereum as a long-term foundational asset. • Lindy Effect: As Bitcoin (18 years old) and Ethereum (10 years old) age, they become "boring" and "mundane" to new generations of capital allocators, leading to inevitable institutional adoption. • The "Manhattan" Model: L1 value isn't just about total transaction count; it's about Price Discrimination. High-value transactions (MEV, arbitrage, large swaps) will always pay a premium for block space, subsidizing cheap "sends" for average users.

Takeaways

Infrastructure vs. Apps: Don't "full port" into apps just because they have higher current revenue. L1s like ETH represent the underlying "operating system" that is harder to displace over a 10-20 year horizon. • Generational Shift: The "Bitcoin is a scam" generation is aging out of power. The next generation of allocators views these assets as obvious components of a portfolio.


Other Mentioned Assets

Zcash (ZEC): Mentioned in the context of a recent bug. Qureshi notes that the market misunderstood the bug; it does not mean the supply is infinite or unknown, suggesting the sell-off may have been an overreaction. • Binance Coin (BNB): Cited as the original "revenue-generating" asset. It remains the largest business in crypto besides Tether, making billions in profit, yet is often overlooked by US investors. • Solana (SOL): Mentioned as part of the "crypto beta" that is currently getting hammered alongside the broader market. • Polymarket: Noted for its successful regulatory navigation, splitting into an offshore on-chain product and an onshore KYC-regulated product.


Risk Factors

Regulatory Enforcement: The CFTC is the "cop on the beat." Any platform wanting to operate legally in the US will eventually need to implement KYC, market surveillance, and restricted leverage. • Leverage Limits: Domestic US perps will likely never allow the 50x leverage seen on offshore platforms, which may limit their growth compared to global competitors. • AI Competition: Capital is currently being diverted to AI trades. While crypto fundamentals (stablecoin supply, scaling) are at all-time highs, prices are lagging because "crypto is not the only star of the show" right now.

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Episode Description
Dragonfly's Haseeb Qureshi breaks down why Bitcoin is not an honest macro asset, why domestic perps will disappoint compared to offshore, and why BNB has been outearning Hyperliquid for years yet nobody wants to talk about it. The most contrarian read on digital assets you'll hear this week. Haseeb Qureshi is Managing Partner at Dragonfly, a leading digital assets venture capital firm. The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world. Timestamps 00:00 Bloody Day Market Recap 02:21 Bitcoin Not Honest Macro 03:39 Retail Left The Market 04:56 Revenue Beats Crypto Beta 07:00 HL Regulatory Risk Explained 09:34 Domestic Perps Different Product 12:07 Why Perps Were Invented 15:42 HL Lighter Most Investable? 17:56 BNB Beats Hyperliquid Revenue 19:36 Markets Are Forward Looking 23:03 L1 Fee Paradox Explained 27:34 OpenAI Enterprise Fee Model 29:14 Fundamentals Great Prices Lagging Guest Socials: Haseeb X: https://x.com/hosseeb Dragonfly X: https://x.com/dragonfly_xyz Dragonfly Website: https://www.dragonfly.xyz/ Partners: Better than Banks. Transparent capital efficiency earning the highest yields in DeFi. Learn more here: https://infinifi.xyz/ --- APYX - Enhanced Digital Credit Yield, Onchain | On Track to Become the Largest Holder of STRC. https://apyx.fi/ --- Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/ --- Relay is the fastest and most reliable way to swap any token on any chain. Learn more here: https://relay.link/bridge --- Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain. Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/ --- Trezor is the creator of the first-ever hardware wallet. Securing crypto for 2M+ users worldwide. 100% open source. Learn more here: https://affil.trezor.io/aff_c?offer_id=133&aff_id=36664 --- 𝗪𝗲 𝘁𝗿𝘆 𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗯𝗲𝘀𝘁 𝘁𝗼 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗱𝘂𝗰𝗲 𝗵𝗶𝗴𝗵-𝗾𝘂𝗮𝗹𝗶𝘁𝘆, 𝗻𝗼𝗻-𝗯𝗶𝗮𝘀𝗲𝗱, 𝗲𝗱𝘂𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗱𝗶𝗴𝗶𝘁𝗮𝗹 𝗮𝘀𝘀𝗲𝘁𝘀 𝗲𝗰𝗼𝘀𝘆𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗺. 𝗦𝘂𝗽𝗽𝗼𝗿𝘁 𝘂𝘀 𝗯𝘆 𝗰𝗹𝗶𝗰𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗮𝗻𝘆 𝗼𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗸𝘀 𝗯𝗲𝗹𝗼𝘄 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗳𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗼𝘂𝗿𝗰𝗲𝘀: Website: https://therollup.co/ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd... Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures 𝗗𝗜𝗦𝗖𝗟𝗔𝗜𝗠𝗘𝗥: 𝘐𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘳𝘺𝘱𝘵𝘰𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘋𝘦𝘍𝘪 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬𝘴 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘭𝘶𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘩𝘯𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬, 𝘩𝘶𝘮𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘰𝘳, 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮 𝘧𝘢𝘪𝘭𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦. 𝘈𝘵 𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘭, 𝘸𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘺 𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘯 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘳 𝘧𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘴 𝘢 𝘴𝘱𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘱, 𝘪𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 𝘮𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘳. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮, 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘦 𝘰𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘤𝘦. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘧𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘰𝘳 𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴.
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