Catching a Falling Knife: The Truth About Software Stocks Today | The Real Eisman Playbook Ep 54
Catching a Falling Knife: The Truth About Software Stocks Today | The Real Eisman Playbook Ep 54
Podcast58 min 37 sec
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

The software sector is undergoing a massive valuation reset, with iconic companies like Salesforce (CRM) and Adobe (ADBE) now trading at significant discounts of 9x to 12x free cash flow. Investors should prioritize Vertical Software leaders like Tyler Technologies (TYL), which are shielded from AI disruption due to deep regulatory moats and mission-critical government contracts. For a more transparent financial play, VeriSign (VRSN) stands out as a high-conviction pick because it reports clean GAAP earnings without the "nonsense" of heavy stock-based compensation. While ServiceNow (NOW) continues to show strong 21% revenue growth, the broader market remains a "falling knife," suggesting a dollar-cost averaging approach over the next 12 months rather than a lump-sum entry. Monitor retention rates and contract renewals over the next four quarters to confirm if incumbents are successfully defending their market share against AI-native competitors.

Detailed Analysis

Software Sector Overview

The software industry is currently experiencing a period of "tumultuous change" comparable to the financial crisis for banks. Historically the best-performing tech group for decades, the sector is now being "obliterated" due to existential fears surrounding Artificial Intelligence (AI).

Takeaways

  • Valuation Reset: Average price-to-sales multiples have plummeted from 6.5x to 3.5x. Many iconic companies are trading at 12x free cash flow, which is a significant discount to the broader S&P 500.
  • Sentiment: The market is currently treating the entire sector as a "falling knife." Investors are ignoring good fundamental numbers because they cannot disprove the long-term negative narrative.
  • Shift in Capital Allocation: Software companies are transitioning from pure growth stories to "cash flow stories," with many initiating dividends and aggressive share buybacks to support stock prices.

The "Bear Case" for Software

The transcript identifies four primary risks (the "four bear cases") that are driving the current sell-off:

  1. Lower Barriers to Entry: AI and "vibe coding" allow people with no coding experience to create applications, potentially eroding the "moats" of established players.
  2. Pricing Power Erosion: As the cost of creating software drops, enterprise customers may demand lower prices or build bespoke internal tools using AI instead of buying off-the-shelf software.
  3. Seat-Based Model Risk: Most software is sold "per seat" (per employee). If AI makes companies more efficient, they may hire fewer people, leading to a permanent decline in seat counts.
  4. Disintermediation: Fears that AI-native companies like OpenAI or Anthropic will circumvent traditional software vendors and sell directly to large enterprises.

Salesforce (CRM)

Salesforce is highlighted as the global leader in sales automation but is currently facing skepticism regarding its growth trajectory.

  • The stock is trading at roughly 12x free cash flow.
  • Top-line revenue growth has slowed to just under 10%.
  • The company recently executed a $25 billion share buyback funded partly by debt and has initiated a dividend.

Takeaways

  • Innovation vs. Legacy: The key for CRM is whether it can pivot to "agentic" solutions (AI agents) that provide enough value to maintain its pricing power.
  • Efficiency Play: The company has significantly reduced its stock-based compensation, signaling a move toward more disciplined financial management.

ServiceNow (NOW)

ServiceNow is described as an "iconic" software company that recently reported strong numbers (21% revenue growth) but saw its stock price drop 10% regardless.

Takeaways

  • Market Disconnect: The price action in NOW suggests that even "perfect" earnings are not enough to overcome the current AI-related fears.
  • Incumbent Advantage: Despite the stock drop, the company is seen as an innovator that is aggressively acquiring AI talent to defend its position.

Tyler Technologies (TYL)

Tyler Technologies is identified as a "boring" but highly resilient investment opportunity in the Vertical Software space.

  • It is the #1 provider of software for local municipalities (town halls, courts, public safety) in the U.S.
  • Market Cap: Approximately $14.5 billion.
  • Moat: It replaces ancient "COBOL" code from the 1980s. Municipalities are unlikely to replace these mission-critical systems with unproven AI tools due to security and compliance needs.

Takeaways

  • Defensive Play: Vertical software (software for specific industries) is considered less likely to be disrupted by AI than "horizontal" software (tools anyone can use, like HR or basic sales tracking).
  • Resilience: TYL is positioned as a "steady, predictable" business trading at multi-year valuation lows.

Adobe (ADBE)

Adobe is cited as a prime example of a company that successfully transitioned to the cloud but is now under pressure.

  • The stock is trading at approximately 9x forward free cash flow.
  • The market is questioning if ADBE can maintain its historical "X percent" annual price increases in an AI-driven world.

Other Mentioned Assets

VeriSign (VRSN)

  • Context: Described as the "backbone of the internet" (.com registry).
  • Insight: It is the only company on the analyst's list that reports GAAP earnings (including stock-based compensation as an expense), making its financial health more transparent than peers.

Microsoft (MSFT)

  • Context: Used as a historical example of a company that "flatlined" for years before innovating through Azure and AI.
  • Insight: It remains the "gold standard" for how a legacy software giant can successfully navigate a platform shift.

Investment Themes & Sector Insights

Vertical vs. Horizontal Software

  • Horizontal Software (e.g., HR, general CRM) is at higher risk because the use cases are broad and easier for AI to replicate.
  • Vertical Software (e.g., Government, Healthcare, Insurance) is safer because these industries require deep regulatory compliance, security certifications (like FedRAMP), and specialized data that AI startups lack.

Stock-Based Compensation (SBC)

  • A major "pet peeve" for Eisman. Software companies often "add back" the cost of paying employees in stock to make their "adjusted" earnings look better.
  • Insight: Investors are finally pushing back on this "nonsense." Companies that reduce SBC and report cleaner numbers are likely to be rewarded as the sector matures.

The "Gartner Hype Cycle"

  • The sector is currently in the "Peak of Inflated Expectations" for AI's threats and potentially entering the "Trough of Disillusionment" for software stocks.
  • Actionable Insight: The "light at the end of the tunnel" is likely at least a year away. Investors should watch for retention rates and contract renewals over the next 3-4 quarters to see if AI is actually stealing customers or if the incumbents are successfully holding their ground.
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Episode Description
On episode 54 of The Real Eisman Playbook, Steve Eisman sits down with Rob Oliver, software analyst at Baird, to break down why the software sector has been obliterated over the past year. Rob shares which companies he believes have the moat and innovation culture to make it through to the other side, and why despite valuations being cut in half, most software investors still aren't ready to buy. 00:00 - Intro 01:16 - History of the Software Sector & Where We're At Now 16:19 - What Makes a Successful Software Company Today? 18:10 - Looking Ahead Two Years 26:43 - How Far Has Valuation Fallen? 29:34 - Stock Based Compensation 33:14 - Vertical Software Companies 37:15 - Private Equity & Private Credit 43:05 - Feedback From the Buy Side 46:00 - AI Native Strategies 50:13 - Nobody Loves Software Right Now 54:21 - Outro Subscribe 👉🏻https://www.youtube.com/@RealEismanPlaybook?sub_confirmation=1 Connect with Steve Eisman and access all things The Eisman Playbook: 🌐 https://linktr.ee/realeismanplaybook → Follow on socials, watch episodes, and get the latest updates — all in one place. Disclaimer: The financial opinions expressed are for information purposes only. The opinions expressed by the hosts and participants are not an attempt to influence specific trading behavior, investments, or strategies. Past performance does not necessarily predict future outcomes. No specific results or profits are assured when relying on this content. Before making any investment or trade, evaluate its suitability for your circumstances and consider consulting your own financial or investment advisor. The financial products discussed in ‘The Eisman Playbook' carry a high level of risk and may not be appropriate for many investors. If you have uncertainties, it's advisable to seek professional advice. Remember that trading involves a risk to your capital, so only invest money you can afford to lose. Derivatives are unsuitable for all investors and involve the risk of losing more than the amount originally deposited and any profit you might have made. This communication is not a recommendation or offer to buy, sell, or retain any specific investment or service. Copyright ©2025 Steve Eisman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
About The Real Eisman Playbook
The Real Eisman Playbook

The Real Eisman Playbook

By Steve Eisman

The Real Eisman Playbook is your front-row seat to the insights, strategies, and perspectives of legendary investor Steve Eisman. Best known for predicting the 2008 financial crisis, Steve brings his sharp analysis and no-nonsense approach to dissecting the markets, global economy, and investment trends shaping the future. Whether you’re a seasoned investor or just curious about how the financial world really works, The Eisman Playbook delivers the knowledge you need to stay ahead. Tune in for expert commentary, candid conversations, and actionable takeaways from one of Wall Street’s most influential minds. Follow Us on Social Media!