How the World Sees America, With Adam Tooze
How the World Sees America, With Adam Tooze
Podcast1 hr 3 min
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

A potential change in the US administration could create a short-term tailwind for NVIDIA (NVDA) by relaxing chip export controls to China. Investors should consider the entire electrification ecosystem, including solar panels and battery technology, as a major long-term growth area driven by China's industrial capacity. Conversely, consider reducing exposure to legacy European automakers as they face significant headwinds from Chinese EV competition. This new geopolitical order increases volatility, so portfolios should be stress-tested for unstable trade relationships. While opportunities exist, be mindful of the significant political and governance risks of investing directly in China.

Detailed Analysis

Investment Theme: The New Geopolitcal Order

  • The central theme of the discussion is that the old, American-led global order is not just changing, but has experienced a "rupture." The world is moving towards a multipolar system with three major, competing powers: the United States, China, and Russia.
  • From the perspective of middle powers like Canada and European nations, these three major powers are increasingly seen as equivalent threats who will use their power to get what they want.
  • The "Biden interlude" was seen by allies as a potential return to the old order, but the underlying shift is now viewed as permanent. This creates uncertainty and forces other countries to become more independent and build their own strength (e.g., "build a new independent Europe").

Takeaways

  • Investors should anticipate greater geopolitical volatility and uncertainty. The era of a predictable, US-led global system is over.
  • Portfolios should be stress-tested for a world where trade relationships are less stable and can be used as political weapons (e.g., tariffs, sanctions, export controls).
  • The rise of a multipolar world may create opportunities in "middle power" economies as they are forced to invest in their own domestic industries, supply chains, and military capabilities.

Investment Theme: China's Industrial Dominance

  • The podcast guest, Adam Tooze, expresses a sense of awe at the scale and speed of China's industrial development, calling it "the single most dramatic transformative socioeconomic transformation in the history of our species."
    • Infrastructure: China built more concrete in three years than the US did in the entire 20th century. It has built a massive high-speed rail system while similar projects in the US have failed.
    • Housing: Nearly 90% of all homes in China have been built since the early 1990s.
  • This industrial capacity is now being directed towards high-tech sectors, positioning China as a dominant global force.
  • Risks: The discussion also highlights the "bear case" for China.
    • President Xi is wielding "terrible authoritarian power," leading to instability like the disappearance of tech CEOs (e.g., Jack Ma) and purges within the Communist Party.
    • There is a risk that this authoritarianism becomes out of touch and ineffective, hindering future growth.
    • However, the guest cautions against trusting the "conventional wisdom" on China, whether it's overly bullish or bearish, and advises humility when analyzing the country.

Takeaways

  • China should not be viewed simply as a low-cost manufacturing hub. It is a highly advanced industrial and technological power that is competing directly with the US.
  • While investing in China offers exposure to immense growth, it comes with significant political and governance risks. The arbitrary nature of the state's power can create extreme volatility for companies and investors.
  • The sheer scale of China's economy means its successes and failures will have a major impact on the entire global economy, from commodity prices to supply chains.

Investment Theme: Green Energy & The "Electrostate"

  • China is described as having created the industrial capacity to put the entire planet on a climate stabilization track. They can produce a "thousand gigawatts of new solar panels every single year."
  • The guest argues that the fundamental failure of Western politics is to reject this capacity for political reasons, instead opting for protectionist policies like the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) which, while building domestic capacity, are seen as actively "retarding America's energy transition."
  • China is building an "electrostate," recognizing that future power—from military might to Artificial Intelligence (AI)—will be dependent on massive amounts of electric power.
  • Battery technology is highlighted as "crucial for every dimension of power," from military applications to the key source of demand from electric vehicles.

Takeaways

  • China is the undisputed leader in the green energy supply chain, particularly solar panels and batteries. This is a critical long-term structural trend.
  • While US and European policies aim to build domestic green industries, they cannot compete with China on scale and cost in the short-to-medium term. This creates a tension between geopolitical goals and climate goals.
  • Investors should consider the entire electrification ecosystem as a major growth area. This includes not just solar and wind generation, but also battery technology, grid infrastructure, and energy storage solutions.

NVIDIA (NVDA)

  • The discussion contrasts the Biden and potential Trump administration's strategies on high-tech competition with China, specifically regarding AI chips.
  • The Biden administration pursued a highly strategic and restrictive policy, attempting to map out "which chips should go where" to slow China's AI progress. This was referred to as the "weaponization of interdependence."
  • A potential Trump administration's strategy is described as far less strategic and more transactional. The policy seems to be "dictated rather more by NVIDIA's corporate interest to just sell chips to everyone."

Takeaways

  • A shift in US administration could represent a significant change in the regulatory environment for US semiconductor companies.
  • A less restrictive, more sales-focused approach under a Trump administration could be a short-term tailwind for NVIDIA's sales to China, as it might relax the strategic export controls currently in place.
  • This highlights the degree to which semiconductor stocks like NVIDIA are exposed to geopolitical decisions in Washington D.C.

European Auto Industry

  • The relationship between Europe and China has two "neuralgic issues": Ukraine and cars.
  • The European car industry is described as a "bottom line issue" for the continent's economy, employing 12 million workers.
  • The influx of Chinese electric vehicles is having a severe impact, with the speaker stating the "Chinese EV invasion is killing the Germans."

Takeaways

  • Traditional European automakers (especially German ones) face extreme competitive pressure from Chinese EV manufacturers, who are often more advanced and cost-effective.
  • This represents a significant headwind for investors in legacy European car stocks.
  • The political and economic importance of the auto industry in Europe may lead to protectionist measures like tariffs, which could create further volatility in the sector.

Betterment

  • Mentioned in a paid client advertisement at the beginning of the podcast.
  • Described as a financial service with automated tools to help users grow their wealth and save on taxes, making investing easier.

Takeaways

  • This mention is a paid advertisement and not an editorial endorsement from the podcast hosts.
  • Betterment is a well-known robo-advisor, a type of automated financial advisor that provides algorithm-based portfolio management.
  • These services can be a good option for investors seeking a low-cost, diversified, and hands-off approach to long-term investing. As with any financial product, potential users should conduct their own research to see if it fits their needs.
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Episode Description
The old world order is dying. What new world order — if any — is struggling to be born? I can’t think of a week when it felt clearer that an era was coming to an end. Whatever people thought America was, at least for a couple of decades, it’s something else now. The killing of Alex Pretti and the fact that it was recorded on video that plainly contradicted the Trump administration’s initial narrative made that clear. Mark Carney, the prime minister of Canada, also drove home that point when he declared at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, that the world was in the midst of a “rupture.” What do people think of America now in Europe? In China? And if American hegemony is coming to an end, what comes after that? Adam Tooze is a historian at Columbia University and a chronicler of crises. The Guardian recently called him “the crisis whisperer.” He’s written a number of books about the times when systems fall apart and new orders emerge, including “Crashed: How a Decade of Financial Crises Changed the World.” And on his Substack, Chartbook, he tracks the unfolding crises and power shifts, in particular the rise of China. He also had a front-row seat to the chaos of Davos last week, moderating a panel that included Howard Lutnick, the commerce secretary. I wanted to talk to Tooze about what he saw at the World Economic Forum, how the world’s understanding of the U.S. is changing and how he’s making sense of this moment. Mentioned: Crashed by Adam Tooze “Chartbook” Substack by Adam Tooze “The Empty Chamber” by George Packer “The growing challenges for monetary policy in the current international monetary and financial system", speech by Mark Carney Book Recommendations: Diary of a Madman and Other Stories by Lu Xun The Southern Tour by Jonathan Chatwin Context Collapse by Ryan Ruby Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.
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The Ezra Klein Show

The Ezra Klein Show

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