You Don't Need a Storyteller, ChatGPT Images, Ali on the Series L | Karri Saarinen, Mike Cessario, Elliot Cohen, Ali Ghodsi
You Don't Need a Storyteller, ChatGPT Images, Ali on the Series L | Karri Saarinen, Mike Cessario, Elliot Cohen, Ali Ghodsi
143 days agoβ€’TBPNβ€’John Coogan & Jordi Hays
Podcast3 hr 23 min
Listen to Episode
Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Legacy automakers like Ford (F) and General Motors (GM) face significant headwinds as they take massive write-downs and retreat from unprofitable electric vehicle strategies. Investors should be cautious of companies potentially overvalued on AI hype, such as the claims against radiology firm RadNet (RDNT), whose narrative may not match its revenue reality. Instead, prioritize companies where AI is driving tangible results, a trend seen in private firms like Databricks and Notion. Looking ahead, prepare for the highly anticipated SpaceX IPO, which is formally being planned for 2026 and could be one of the decade's largest market events. Similarly, keep an eye on data platform Databricks as another major IPO candidate for 2026, given its rapid revenue acceleration driven by AI adoption.

Detailed Analysis

CoreWeave (Private)

  • The company, a key data center provider for the AI boom, has experienced a "staggering fall from market grace," with its value dropping by $33 billion (a 46% plunge) in six weeks.
  • This decline is attributed to a combination of factors:
    • General investor fears of a possible AI bubble.
    • The fallout from a failed merger.
    • Public criticism from a high-profile short seller.
    • Delays in the completion of a large data center cluster it plans to lease to OpenAI.
  • Business Model: CoreWeave uses high-interest debt to purchase advanced chips from NVIDIA, installs them in data centers, and then rents access to that computing power to companies like OpenAI, Microsoft, and Meta.
  • Financials & Valuation:
    • Sales more than doubled in the most recent quarter to nearly $1.4 billion.
    • The company is unprofitable, losing $110 million in the same quarter.
    • Its valuation has been volatile. It was valued at $7 billion in December 2023, raised money at a $23 billion valuation in November 2024, and is currently valued at $34 billion despite the recent 46% drop from its peak.
    • NVIDIA owns a 7% stake in the company.

Takeaways

  • CoreWeave represents a high-risk, high-reward bet on the AI infrastructure boom. Its business model is heavily leveraged, relying on debt to finance massive capital expenditures.
  • The stock's extreme volatility highlights the risks associated with the "picks and shovels" plays of the AI gold rush.
  • Investors should be aware of significant customer concentration risk (reliance on a few large tech companies) and execution risk related to their data center build-out. The recent price drop could be a warning sign of market froth or a potential buying opportunity for those with a high risk tolerance.

Ford (F) & General Motors (GM)

  • Ford is taking a massive $19.5 billion write-down on its electric vehicle (EV) business.
  • The company is pivoting its strategy, boosting its lineup of more profitable gas-powered cars and hybrids.
  • Ford is completely scrapping its all-electric F-150 Lightning pickup truck, which had received positive press but was not selling well enough to be profitable.
  • Since 2023, Ford has lost $13 billion on its EV division, losing an estimated $50,000 for each EV sold.
  • General Motors (GM) has also rolled back its EV plans, taking a smaller $1.6 billion charge.
  • The podcast commentary suggests the business case for EVs for these legacy automakers was heavily dependent on government subsidies and mandates, which are now being reduced or eliminated.

Takeaways

  • The discussion signals a strongly bearish outlook on the near-term profitability of legacy automakers' EV strategies.
  • The massive financial losses and strategic pivots by Ford and GM indicate that consumer demand may not be strong enough to support these vehicles without significant government incentives.
  • This is a significant headwind for the traditional auto sector's transition to electric. Investors should be cautious about the profitability and execution of these EV plans, as the path to making money on EVs appears much more difficult than previously anticipated.

Artificial Intelligence (AI) as an Investment Theme

  • The podcast presents a nuanced debate on whether AI is a bubble.
  • Bearish Points (Bubble Indicators):
    • The sharp decline of CoreWeave is presented as a sign of froth and investor anxiety.
    • A report targeting RadNet (RDNT), a radiology firm, claims its AI story "doesn't add up" and that its stock has soared on a narrative that represents less than 5% of its revenue. This points to the risk of companies rebranding as "AI" to inflate their valuations.
  • Bullish Points (Not a Bubble):
    • A counter-argument is made that real businesses like Meta (META) and C.H. Robinson (CHRW) are seeing tangible efficiency gains and impact from AI.
    • The market is seen as rationally scrutinizing AI-related companies, punishing those with weak results like Oracle (ORCL) and Broadcom (AVGO), which is a sign of a healthy, not bubble, market.
    • Companies like Databricks and Notion are showing massive, real revenue growth directly attributable to AI products.
  • Open Source AI: Models from China are seen as a major commoditizing force, putting downward pressure on the prices charged by foundation model labs. This is viewed as a positive for companies building applications on top of these models, as it lowers their costs.

Takeaways

  • The key for investors is to differentiate between AI hype and tangible business results. Look for companies that can demonstrate real revenue and profit growth from AI, not just those with a good "story."
  • Be wary of companies that have simply added "AI" to their marketing without a clear, profitable product. The market is beginning to punish these names.
  • The commoditization of foundation models via open source could be a long-term headwind for pure-play model companies but a tailwind for companies in the application and infrastructure layers (like Databricks) that can leverage cheaper models to build valuable products.

SpaceX (Private)

  • SpaceX is formally preparing for a planned 2026 IPO.
  • The company is initiating a "bake-off" to select which investment banks will advise on the public offering.
  • There is speculation that the company could be valued at $1.5 trillion or more in an IPO.
  • An investment at this valuation would result in a staggering return for early investors, with Peter Thiel's stake potentially being worth $42 billion.
  • Prominent venture capitalist Bill Gurley believes the company should pursue a direct listing instead of a traditional IPO.

Takeaways

  • The SpaceX IPO is shaping up to be one of the most significant market events of the decade.
  • Investors should monitor news around the IPO process, as its massive potential valuation will have ripple effects across the market.
  • The discussion around a direct listing vs. a traditional IPO is important. A direct listing could reduce the "IPO pop" and allow for more transparent price discovery, but the immense retail interest in an Elon Musk company makes the outcome unpredictable.

Databricks (Private)

  • The company just raised a Series L funding round.
  • Business is accelerating, driven by AI adoption. The company has surpassed a $4.8 billion annual revenue run rate, growing at over 55%.
  • Key business segments are performing strongly:
    • Its data warehousing product has passed a $1 billion run rate.
    • Its AI-specific revenue has also passed a $1 billion run rate, now making up over 25% of the company's total revenue.
  • CEO Ali Ghodsi stated that the company could go public by the end of next year (2026) but is not in a rush, wanting to avoid the market volatility that hurt newly public tech companies in 2022.

Takeaways

  • Databricks is a prime example of a company successfully monetizing the AI boom at the infrastructure and application layer.
  • Its impressive growth and billion-dollar revenue streams in both data warehousing and AI demonstrate a powerful, integrated business model.
  • As a potential IPO candidate for 2026, Databricks is a major private company for investors to watch. Its performance shows strong demand for platforms that help enterprises manage their data and build their own AI applications.

Notion (Private)

  • The productivity app is conducting a $300 million tender offer at an $11 billion valuation.
  • The company has crossed $600 million in annual recurring revenue (ARR).
  • Notably, half of its revenue ($300 million) is said to come from its AI products.
  • The company is presented as a case study in "growing into your valuation," as it had a very high valuation relative to its revenue in 2020-2021 but has since seen explosive revenue growth to justify it.

Takeaways

  • Notion is another key private company demonstrating the powerful monetization potential of integrating AI into existing software products.
  • The fact that AI now accounts for half its revenue is a strong signal that businesses are willing to pay for AI-powered productivity features.
  • The successful tender offer at a high valuation indicates continued strong investor appetite for top-tier private software companies, making Notion another major IPO candidate to watch in the coming years.

Liquid Death (Private)

  • Founder Mike Cessario discussed the brand's successful launch, which was validated by creating a viral video and social media presence for the product before it even existed.
  • The brand's core strategy is to make a healthy product (water) and market it with the fun, irreverent, and humorous style typically reserved for junk food and alcohol brands.
  • They are launching a new energy drink, positioning it as having a "sane level of energy" (around 114mg of caffeine, similar to a Red Bull) in a market where competitors like Celsius have 200mg or more.
  • Their go-to-market strategy for the energy drink will focus on comedy and entertainment, avoiding direct competition with the massive sports marketing budgets of Red Bull and Monster.

Takeaways

  • Liquid Death's success provides a powerful case study on the importance of brand and marketing as a competitive moat in the Consumer Packaged Goods (CPG) space.
  • Their strategy of validating an idea with marketing before committing to expensive production is a valuable lesson for entrepreneurs and investors evaluating early-stage CPG companies.
  • The launch of their energy drink shows a thoughtful approach to product line extension, entering a large category with a differentiated brand position ("funny" and "sane") rather than competing on features or price alone.
Ask about this postAnswers are grounded in this post's content.
Episode Description
(00:55) - Viral WSJ 'You Don't Need a Storyteller' Piece (28:52) - 𝕏 Timeline Reactions (34:03) - ChatGPT Images 1.5 (46:05) - 𝕏 Timeline Reactions (01:00:44) - Coreweave Tests AI Market Hype (01:11:40) - The Price of Ford's EV Push (01:19:58) - 𝕏 Timeline Reactions (01:30:32) - Karri Saarinen, co-founder and CEO of Linear, a project management tool, previously served as Principal Designer at Airbnb and Head of Design at Coinbase. In the conversation, he discusses the importance of maintaining a broad perspective in design, cautioning against conflating design with coding, as it may limit creativity and lead to conservative solutions. He emphasizes the need for a conceptual design phase to explore multiple directions before execution, allowing for innovative and thoughtful outcomes. (01:51:42) - 𝕏 Timeline Reactions (02:00:47) - Mike Cessario, founder and CEO of Liquid Death, discusses the innovative launch strategy of his canned water brand, emphasizing the use of a viral video to gauge market interest before product availability. He highlights the importance of leveraging existing networks and resources, such as collaborating with the creator of "Mr. Pickles" for brand design and animation, to create compelling marketing content. Cessario also addresses the balance between humor in branding and maintaining sincerity in customer interactions, underscoring the significance of understanding the audience and context in communication. (02:21:36) - Elliot Cohen, co-founder of PillPack, which was acquired by Amazon in 2018, discusses his new venture, General Medicine, an online healthcare marketplace aiming to simplify access to medical care. He highlights the platform's ability to connect users with medical providers, assess care needs based on symptoms, and integrate health history into a chat interface for personalized support. Cohen emphasizes the importance of empowering consumers in their healthcare journey, aiming to make the experience as seamless as shopping online. (02:38:44) - Ali Ghodsi, CEO and co-founder of Databricks, discusses the company's significant growth, highlighting a revenue run rate surpassing $4.8 billion with over 55% year-over-year growth, and AI products exceeding $1 billion in revenue. He emphasizes the importance of a solid data foundation for effective AI implementation, noting that AI models are becoming commodities, but their true value lies in reasoning over proprietary enterprise data. Ghodsi also shares insights on navigating open-source business models, advising founders to achieve widespread adoption of their open-source projects and then innovate with proprietary offerings to monetize effectively. (03:06:30) - Affinity Drops out of WB Takeover Battle (03:09:04) - 𝕏 Timeline Reactions TBPN.com is made possible by:Β  Ramp - https://ramp.com Figma - https://figma.com Vanta - https://vanta.com Linear - https://linear.app Eight Sleep - https://eightsleep.com/tbpn Wander - https://wander.com/tbpn Public - https://public.com AdQuick - https://adquick.com Bezel - https://getbezel.comΒ  Numeral - https://www.numeralhq.com Attio - https://attio.com/tbpn Fin - https://fin.ai/tbpn Graphite - https://graphite.dev Restream - https://restream.io Profound - https://tryprofound.com Julius AI - https://julius.ai turbopuffer - https://turbopuffer.com Polymarket - https://polymarket.com/ fal - https://fal.ai Privy - https://www.privy.io Cognition - https://cognition.ai Gemini - https://gemini.google.com Follow TBPN:Β  https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive
About TBPN
TBPN

TBPN

By John Coogan & Jordi Hays

Technology's daily show (formerly the Technology Brothers Podcast). Streaming live on X and YouTube from 11 - 2 PM PST Monday - Friday. Available on X, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube.