Tech Turns to Mining, Meta VR Layoffs, Thinking Machines Shakeup | Matthew Prince, Chirantan Desai, Delian Asparouhov, Deepak Pathak, David Tearse, Blake Resnick
Tech Turns to Mining, Meta VR Layoffs, Thinking Machines Shakeup | Matthew Prince, Chirantan Desai, Delian Asparouhov, Deepak Pathak, David Tearse, Blake Resnick
Podcast3 hr 7 min
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Google (GOOGL) may be undervalued in the AI race, as its massive web-crawling data advantage provides a significant, defensible moat for training superior models. Tesla's (TSLA) new lithium refinery strengthens its long-term position by securing its battery supply chain and reducing reliance on China. Consider Meta (META) as it pivots from costly metaverse projects to focus on profitable AI infrastructure and successful hardware like its Ray-Ban smart glasses. The AI buildout creates strong short-term demand for Copper, but be aware that new refining technologies could increase supply and cap long-term prices. Conversely, be cautious with application SaaS stocks, as AI threatens their competitive moats and many suffer from high dilution via stock-based compensation.

Detailed Analysis

Tesla (TSLA)

  • Tesla is making significant progress on its new lithium refinery in Texas, which is the first of its kind in North America to convert raw spodumene ore directly into battery-grade lithium hydroxide.
  • The facility went from groundbreaking to first production in just 19 months, an "unheard of timeline" for this scale.
  • The process is described as cleaner and more sustainable than traditional methods, producing a useful byproduct for concrete instead of hazardous waste.
  • A single refinery is expected to supply enough lithium for 500,000 to 1 million electric vehicles per year.
    • With Tesla shipping around 1.65 million vehicles, building two or three of these refineries could cover their entire supply need.
  • This move is a direct challenge to China's 60% grip on global lithium refining and is part of a broader trend of tech companies vertically integrating deep into their supply chains to secure critical minerals.

Takeaways

  • Bullish Sentiment: The discussion frames this as a major strategic win for Tesla, enhancing its vertical integration, securing its supply chain for a critical battery component, and reducing reliance on China.
  • Operational Excellence: The speed of construction highlights Tesla's ability to execute on large-scale industrial projects, a key competitive advantage.
  • Long-Term Strategy: This investment in refining demonstrates Tesla's focus on controlling its own destiny and de-risking its production from geopolitical and supply chain shocks. Investors should see this as a move that strengthens the company's long-term manufacturing foundation.

Copper (Commodity)

  • The AI data center boom is a massive demand driver for copper, which is essential for wiring, transformers, and other electrical components.
  • The price of copper has reportedly nearly doubled in the past two years due to this demand.
  • Amazon Web Services (AWS) has partnered with mining giant Rio Tinto (RIO) to underwrite a new, more efficient chemical process for refining low-grade copper deposits.
    • The initial deal is small (1,400 metric tons), but its success could be significant.
  • If this new refining process works, it could effectively triple the available supply of copper, which would likely cause prices to fall from their current highs.
  • Prominent investor Chamath Palihapitiya is quoted as being very bullish on copper, stating, "copper is the only game in town" for the AI buildout.

Takeaways

  • Short-Term Bullish: The AI buildout is creating immense, immediate demand for copper, supporting a bullish thesis in the near term.
  • Long-Term Caution: Technological advancements in refining, like the one backed by AWS and Rio Tinto, could dramatically increase supply in the coming years. This poses a long-term risk to high copper prices.
  • Investment Horizon is Key: An investment in copper is a bet on the timeline of the supply-demand imbalance. The short-term demand is clear, but the long-term supply picture could change.

Amazon (AMZN)

  • Through its AWS division, Amazon is vertically integrating into the mining supply chain by partnering with Rio Tinto to secure copper for its data centers. This highlights the scale of the AI infrastructure buildout.
  • In the "agentic commerce" space, Amazon is taking a defensive strategy by suing AI shopping agents like Perplexity, signaling they want to own the AI shopping agent experience themselves, likely through Alexa. This contrasts with Walmart's more open approach.
  • The company is mentioned as a potential acquirer for the AI startup Thinking Machines.

Takeaways

  • Strategic Investments: Amazon is making strategic, forward-looking moves to secure its supply chain for the AI boom, indicating how critical they view this expansion.
  • Defending the Moat: Amazon's strategy to block third-party AI shopping agents shows it is focused on protecting its core e-commerce and advertising business. Investors should watch how this "walled garden" approach to AI commerce plays out against more open strategies.

Meta (META)

  • Meta laid off 1,500 people (about 10% of the staff) in its Reality Labs division, which works on metaverse and wearable products. The stock was reportedly up on the news.
  • Despite the layoffs, 14,000 people still work in Reality Labs, indicating a continued, albeit refocused, commitment.
  • The company's messaging has shifted from virtual reality (VR) towards augmented reality (AR) and wearables.
    • The Ray-Ban smart glasses have sold over 2 million pairs and are seeing high demand, contrasting sharply with the low usage of its flagship metaverse product, Horizon Worlds (less than 200,000 monthly active users).
  • Meta has established a new top-level initiative called MetaCompute, led by Daniel Gross, to manage its massive infrastructure spend, which is projected to be in the tens or even hundreds of gigawatts over time.
    • Analyst Ben Thompson is skeptical that this signals a move into cloud computing to compete with AWS, Microsoft, and Google, questioning what unique advantage Meta would bring.

Takeaways

  • Pragmatic Pivot: Meta is responding to shareholder pressure and market realities by trimming losses in speculative VR projects and doubling down on products with real traction (Ray-Ban glasses) and strategic importance (AI compute).
  • Capital Discipline: The layoffs and strategic refocusing show a degree of capital discipline, which is a positive signal for investors who were concerned about the "money pit" of the metaverse.
  • The New Core Focus is AI: The creation of MetaCompute underscores that the company's primary strategic priority and capital expenditure is now centered on building out massive AI infrastructure, not just the metaverse.

Google (GOOGL)

  • Cloudflare's CEO, Matthew Prince, presented a strong bull case for Google in the AI race, based on a significant data advantage.
  • According to Cloudflare's data, Google's crawlers see 3.2 times more of the web than OpenAI's crawlers. This massive data advantage is a key ingredient for training superior AI models.
  • Prince argues that because of this data moat from its search engine, "the game might just go to them," and there's a "real concern that Google is going to run away with this."
  • The discussion highlights that Google's Gemini model has continued to outperform competitors, which Prince attributes directly to this data advantage.

Takeaways

  • Hidden Moat: Google's long-standing dominance in web search has created a powerful and potentially insurmountable data advantage for its AI development, which may be underappreciated by the market.
  • Competitive Positioning: While startups like OpenAI and Anthropic get a lot of attention, Google's structural advantages position it as a formidable, long-term winner in the AI platform race.
  • Monitor the Data Access Battle: Investors should watch for any regulatory or competitive shifts that could either erode Google's data advantage or "level the playing field" by giving other AI labs more access to web data.

Thinking Machines (Private Company)

  • The high-flying AI startup is experiencing significant internal turmoil.
    • The CTO, Barrett Zoff, was terminated for "unethical conduct."
    • Multiple co-founders and employees are leaving to rejoin OpenAI.
  • The company was founded by ex-OpenAI talent and raised a $2 billion seed round at a $12 billion valuation. There were later rumors of a fundraise at a $50-$60 billion valuation.
  • Potential acquirers are speculated to be large-cap tech companies looking for a frontier model team, such as NVIDIA, Microsoft, Apple, Meta, and Amazon.
  • Their product focus is on enterprise applications, specifically making it easy for businesses to fine-tune models using Reinforcement Learning (RL).

Takeaways

  • High Risk, High Reward: The internal drama highlights the significant execution risk in even the most well-funded AI startups.
  • Talent is Everything: The "talent wars" in AI are intense. The movement of key personnel between labs like Thinking Machines and OpenAI can dramatically alter a company's trajectory.
  • Acquisition Target: Given the turmoil and the immense value of its remaining talent, Thinking Machines could be a prime acquisition target for a tech giant wanting to accelerate its AI efforts.

Hadrian (Private Company)

  • Hadrian is an industrial technology company that builds automated manufacturing facilities to make metal parts for aerospace and defense companies.
  • The company just raised a new funding round at a $1.6 billion valuation, led by public market investor T. Rowe Price.
  • Venture capitalist Delian Asparouhov described the company as hitting a key inflection point where its economics have "turned a corner" after years of R&D.
  • Hadrian is transitioning from being just a supplier to a "neoprime" contractor focused on solving production bottlenecks for the Department of Defense.

Takeaways

  • "Slop vs. Steel": Hadrian is a prime example of the "American Dynamism" or "steel" investment thesis, focusing on solving hard industrial and defense problems.
  • Crossover Investor Validation: The investment from a major public market firm like T. Rowe Price is a strong signal of validation and suggests a clear path to a future IPO or large-scale success.
  • Defense Tech Trend: Hadrian is a key player in the emerging ecosystem of "neoprimes" that are disrupting the traditional defense industry, a sector seeing renewed investor interest.

Brink Drones (Private Company)

  • Brink is the second-largest quadcopter manufacturer in America and the world's largest public safety drone company.
  • A recent federal ban on all new foreign drones from entering the U.S. has created a massive market opportunity for American manufacturers.
  • This ban effectively blocks competitors like DJI, which controls 90% of the global market, from introducing new products in the U.S.
  • Brink's CEO stated their goal is to become the "DJI of the West," serving not just public safety but eventually expanding into industrial and consumer markets to build up domestic industrial capacity.

Takeaways

  • Major Regulatory Tailwind: The U.S. government has effectively cleared the field of foreign competition for Brink and other domestic drone manufacturers, creating a protected and potentially lucrative market.
  • National Security Play: Investing in domestic drone manufacturing is framed as a national security imperative, ensuring the U.S. has the industrial base to produce drones at scale if needed for defense.
  • Future Growth Potential: While currently focused on the premium public safety market, the company has a clear vision to expand into much larger commercial and consumer verticals, representing significant future growth.

SaaS (Software as a Service) - Investment Theme

  • A bearish perspective on the application SaaS sector was presented.
  • Valuation Concerns: Many SaaS stocks lack valuation support, and free cash flow is often a "mirage" due to excessive stock-based compensation (dilution). Snapchat (SNAP) was cited as an example of a company that "gives away the whole company every 10 years."
  • AI as a Threat: The rise of AI and "vibe coding" makes it nearly free to build new features, which will increase competition and compress margins as companies easily encroach on each other's turf.
  • Lack of Buyers: With the prevailing negative sentiment, it's unclear who will step in to buy struggling SaaS companies, aside from potentially private equity.

Takeaways

  • Increased Scrutiny Needed: Investors in the SaaS space should look beyond top-line revenue growth and pay close attention to profitability, cash flow, and especially the level of dilution from stock-based compensation.
  • Competitive Moats are Shrinking: The ease of building software with AI means that a company's competitive advantage can no longer be based solely on having a specific feature set. Durable moats will be more important than ever.
  • Potential for Consolidation: The bearish outlook suggests a future where many smaller, unprofitable SaaS companies may be forced to sell at low valuations or go out of business, leading to consolidation in the industry.
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Episode Description
Sign up for TBPN’s daily newsletter at TBPN.com (01:30) - Big Tech Turns to Mining (12:09) - 𝕏 Timeline Reactions (21:44) - Thinking Machines Loses Top Executives (29:24) - NYC Sauna Wars (38:46) - Meta VR Layoffs (57:12) - Chirantan "CJ" Desai, appointed President and CEO of MongoDB in November 2025, discusses the company's reintroduction in San Francisco, emphasizing its evolution to support AI-driven applications. He highlights MongoDB's growth to over 60,000 customers, attributing this to its agility in handling unstructured data like images and videos, which is crucial for modern AI applications. Desai also mentions the company's strategic acquisitions, such as Voyage, to enhance AI capabilities, and expresses confidence in cloud providers' ability to meet computing demands, ensuring MongoDB's continued innovation and scalability. (01:07:55) - Matthew Prince, co-founder and CEO of Cloudflare, discusses the €14 million fine imposed by Italy's communications watchdog, AGCOM, for allegedly failing to block access to pirated content via Cloudflare's services. He explains that the fine stems from a law allowing media executives to blacklist websites, requiring companies like Cloudflare to remove them globally within 30 minutes—a mandate he criticizes as overreaching and impractical. Prince expresses concern over the broader implications of such laws, emphasizing the potential for censorship and the challenges they pose to maintaining an open and free internet. (01:33:47) - Delian Asparouhov, a Bulgarian-born entrepreneur and investor, is a Partner at Founders Fund and Co-Founder and President of Varda Space Industries, which focuses on manufacturing in space. In the conversation, he discusses his pattern of investing during the holiday season, noting that over the past nine years, he has signed term sheets within 48 hours of Christmas Day in seven of those years. He attributes this to the quieter environment during the holidays, which facilitates focused negotiations with founders, and mentions that this period allows for setting clear deadlines, such as requiring deals to be signed by New Year's, making it a convenient time for both investors and founders to engage in discussions. (01:55:55) - 𝕏 Timeline Reactions (02:07:01) - Deepak Pathak, CEO and co-founder of Skild AI, is developing a general-purpose robot brain capable of controlling various robotic forms, from humanoids to quadrupeds, with a single system. In the conversation, he discusses the company's recent $1.4 billion funding round, valuing Skild AI at $14 billion, and emphasizes the importance of integrating robots into everyday environments alongside humans to handle the unpredictability of real-world scenarios. He also highlights the challenges in robotics due to the scarcity of data, contrasting it with fields like language and vision, and explains Skild AI's approach of learning from human videos and simulations to overcome this hurdle. (02:16:56) - David Tearse, co-founder and CEO of Karman Industries, discusses the launch of their Heat Processing Unit (HPU), a cooling system designed for gigawatt-scale AI data centers. The HPU utilizes supercritical CO₂ to efficiently manage heat, reducing energy consumption by at least 25% compared to existing solutions, and offers a modular 10-megawatt design that decreases mechanical yard space by about 80%, accelerating deployment times. Tearse also highlights the potential for waste heat recovery, including converting excess heat back into electricity or providing heating to nearby communities, emphasizing the environmental and operational benefits of their technology. (02:35:53) - Blake Resnick, founder and CEO of BRINC Drones, began his engineering career with internships at McLaren Automotive, Tesla Motors, and DJI Inc. In the conversation, he discusses BRINC's development of drones designed for public safety, including the LEMUR, which assists SWAT teams by flying indoors, breaking glass, and enabling two-way communication. He also highlights the company's growth, noting that approximately 20% of SWAT teams in the U.S. are utilizing BRINC's drones, and shares plans for expanding their applications to include rapid response to 911 calls and integration with emergency medical services. 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