FULL INTERVIEW: Tyler Cowen on Kevin Warsh, Clawdbot, precious metals, and AI & unemployment
FULL INTERVIEW: Tyler Cowen on Kevin Warsh, Clawdbot, precious metals, and AI & unemployment
Podcast27 min 14 sec
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Consider investing in the Energy Sector as a "picks and shovels" play on the AI boom, which is expected to create massive long-term demand for power. The current rally in gold and silver is driven by a search for a store of value, but investors should be cautious of its momentum-driven volatility. Treat Bitcoin as a high-risk asset that correlates with stocks, not as a safe-haven hedge for your portfolio. Do not expect a major crash in the housing market, as strong political will exists to keep home prices elevated. Despite short-term anxiety, the US Dollar is expected to remain the world's primary safe-haven asset due to a lack of large-scale alternatives.

Detailed Analysis

Precious Metals (Gold & Silver)

  • The speakers discuss the massive run-up in precious metals.
  • This is attributed to the US dollar losing some of its safe haven status among a certain class of investors.
  • Tyler Cowen describes precious metals as "the new meme stocks," suggesting the rally is driven by momentum and a lack of other options rather than deep fundamentals.
  • The move into gold and silver is seen as proof that there is no real rival asset to the US dollar. Investors are buying them because they feel there is "nowhere else to go."
  • The trend is driven by a broad demand for a durable store of value, especially as Bitcoin has not fulfilled that role for many investors.

Takeaways

  • The rally in gold and silver is a signal of investor anxiety and a search for alternatives to the dollar, even if no true alternative exists.
  • Viewing this asset class as a "meme stock" implies that investors should be cautious of high volatility and sentiment-driven price swings rather than treating it as a stable, long-term safe haven.
  • The demand for a store of value is a powerful theme, and precious metals are currently the primary beneficiary of this sentiment.

Bitcoin (BTC)

  • The podcast asserts that investors have realized Bitcoin is not a hedge against traditional financial assets.
  • It is described as being "super positive co-varying" with other US assets, meaning its price tends to move in the same direction as the stock market.
  • This correlation is viewed as good news for the strength of the overall US financial system but bad news for investors who were hoping to use Bitcoin to diversify and protect their portfolios during downturns.
  • The discussion concludes that Bitcoin "never really took up the mantle of the true store of value," which has pushed investors seeking that quality towards assets like gold.

Takeaways

  • Investors should not consider Bitcoin a safe-haven asset or a reliable hedge against stock market corrections.
  • Its price behavior is more similar to a high-risk technology stock than a digital version of gold.
  • Portfolio allocation should treat Bitcoin as a risk-on asset, expecting it to fall when the broader market falls.

Tether (USDT)

  • It was noted that Tether is buying a large amount of gold.
  • This move is described as a "brilliant investing move" from a pure returns perspective.
  • However, this action is also seen as making financial regulators "real nervous very quickly."
  • The speaker interprets this as Tether "thumbing their nose" at regulators, signaling an intent to operate with less transparency and invest as they see fit.

Takeaways

  • Tether's strategy to back its stablecoin with assets like gold could be profitable but significantly increases its regulatory risk.
  • Investors in the crypto space should be aware that the stability of USDT, the largest stablecoin, could face pressure from regulators concerned about its non-transparent and unconventional backing strategy.

US Treasuries & The US Dollar

  • While the dollar has lost some appeal as a safe haven, the overall US financial position is not seen as having collapsed.
  • The core thesis is that "there's nowhere else to go" for large-scale capital seeking safety.
  • The speaker doubts there is a meaningful, long-term shift of foreign buyers like China and Japan away from US treasuries, as they can be purchased indirectly.
  • The fact that investors are flocking to relatively small markets like gold and silver is presented as proof of the dollar's continued dominance, as it shows a lack of viable, large-scale alternatives.
  • A key risk mentioned is that the world is becoming "a lot more correlated," meaning that if a major crisis were to occur, there would be "nowhere to hide."

Takeaways

  • Despite negative headlines, the US Dollar and US Treasuries are expected to maintain their dominant position as the world's primary safe-haven assets due to a lack of credible alternatives.
  • Investors should not bet against the dollar's long-term status based on short-term runs into assets like precious metals.

Investment Theme: AI & Energy Sectors

  • The podcast discusses the risk of a potential bubble forming in AI due to "massive over-leveraged debt flooding the system."
  • Despite this risk, the long-term outlook is that AI will create "so many new companies" and drive significant economic shifts.
  • A major consequence of the AI boom will be a massive increase in demand for more energy, leading to "an incredible number of jobs in the energy sector."
  • It's suggested that a career path in the energy sector, potentially in places like Houston, will be a major source of high-paying jobs in the future.

Takeaways

  • AI is a transformative, long-term investment theme, but investors should be wary of short-term bubble dynamics and over-leveraged companies.
  • The Energy Sector is a direct beneficiary of the AI boom. The immense power requirements for data centers and AI models create a strong, long-term tailwind for companies involved in energy production and infrastructure. This represents a "picks and shovels" play on the AI revolution.

Investment Theme: The Housing Market

  • The podcast highlights comments from former President Trump indicating a political desire to keep housing prices high.
  • This sentiment is not unique to Trump; the speaker believes most politicians think this way, even if they don't say it publicly.
  • The forecast is that "most home prices will stay high" due to this strong political will.
  • While the speaker is personally a "YIMBY" (Yes In My Backyard) advocate for more housing supply, he is not optimistic that these efforts will be successful enough to bring prices down significantly.

Takeaways

  • There is significant political pressure to prevent a housing market crash and maintain high property values.
  • Investors should not expect a major, nationwide decline in housing prices. The market is likely to remain strong and elevated, continuing to benefit homeowners but challenging prospective buyers.

Investment Theme: "Secrets" & Human Networks

  • This is a more abstract but powerful investment theme discussed at the end of the podcast.
  • As AI makes public information and basic skills ubiquitous, the value of "secrets" will increase dramatically.
  • "Secrets" refers to non-public information: institutional knowledge, how corporate decisions really get made, who holds influence, and the nuances of human networks.
  • Human mentors and personal networks become the gatekeepers to this valuable information, which cannot be replicated by an AI model trained on public data.
  • The conclusion is that people will "hoard their secrets because they're higher in value," and the final joke is to "go long on secrets."

Takeaways

  • In an AI-driven world, the value of your personal and professional network increases, as it provides access to proprietary knowledge and opportunities.
  • This is not a stock to buy, but an investment thesis in oneself. Investing time and resources into building strong relationships and becoming a trusted node in a network will yield higher returns than ever before.
  • Companies or platforms that facilitate high-trust, valuable human connections may become increasingly important.
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Episode Description
This is our full interview with Tyler Cowen, recorded live on TBPN. We discuss Kevin Warsh and the Federal Reserve, volatility in precious metals and gold, AI-driven unemployment, Clawdbot, and the broader societal impacts of AI. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays from 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with full episodes posted to podcast platforms immediately after.  Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” TBPN has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN.com is made possible by: Ramp - https://Ramp.com AppLovin - https://axon.ai Cognition - https://cognition.ai Console - https://console.com CrowdStrike - https://crowdstrike.com ElevenLabs - https://elevenlabs.io Figma - https://figma.com Fin - https://fin.ai Gemini - https://gemini.google.com Graphite - https://graphite.com Gusto - https://gusto.com/tbpn Labelbox - https://labelbox.com Lambda - https://lambda.ai Linear - https://linear.app MongoDB - https://mongodb.com NYSE - https://nyse.com Okta - https://www.okta.com Phantom - https://phantom.com/cash Plaid - https://plaid.com Public - https://public.com Railway - https://railway.com Ramp - https://ramp.com Restream - https://restream.io Sentry - https://sentry.io Shopify - https://shopify.com Turbopuffer - https://turbopuffer.com Vanta - https://vanta.com Vibe - https://vibe.co Sentry - https://sentry.io Cisco - https://www.ciscoaisummit.com/ai-virtual-summit.html Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive
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By John Coogan & Jordi Hays

Technology's daily show (formerly the Technology Brothers Podcast). Streaming live on X and YouTube from 11 - 2 PM PST Monday - Friday. Available on X, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube.