Daniel Gross’s AGI Trades, SpaceX’s $1.75T IPO, Google Silences Sweeney | Mark Gurman, Dan Primack, Cameron McCord, Max Haot, Christian Howell
Daniel Gross’s AGI Trades, SpaceX’s $1.75T IPO, Google Silences Sweeney | Mark Gurman, Dan Primack, Cameron McCord, Max Haot, Christian Howell
Podcast3 hr 6 min
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Investors should prioritize the "picks and shovels" of AI infrastructure by holding NVIDIA (NVDA), which continues to capture the majority of sector profits through its dominant hardware position. To hedge against tech volatility, diversify into Copper (HG) and nuclear energy providers like Vistra (VST) and Constellation Energy (CEG), as power and raw materials have become the primary bottlenecks for data center expansion. Avoid over-allocating to traditional SaaS companies facing growth headwinds, and instead monitor Microsoft (MSFT) for a long-term recovery as its massive capital expenditures begin to boost Azure cloud margins. Keep a close watch on the potential SpaceX IPO, which is expected to trigger a massive liquidity event and immediate inclusion in major indices like the S&P 500. For private market exposure, look toward "serious software" firms like Nominal that provide critical telemetry and testing infrastructure for the American manufacturing and defense sectors.

Detailed Analysis

NVIDIA (NVDA)

NVIDIA is identified as the primary winner of the "picks and shovels" investment theme. The transcript highlights that value in the AGI era has accrued almost entirely to the infrastructure layer (chips, packaging, and power).

  • Market Dominance: NVIDIA added $3.2 trillion in market cap since early 2024.
  • Financial Growth: Revenue tripled from $60 billion in FY2024 to $215.9 billion in FY2026.
  • Profit Margins: Gross margins increased from 30% to 60%, capturing over 100% of the total profits in the AI sector as many foundation labs continue to lose money.
  • Infrastructure Bottlenecks: The GB200 NVL72 server is cited as a marvel of engineering, requiring over 5,000 copper cables (two miles of wiring) per single rack.

Takeaways

  • Infrastructure over Applications: In the current phase of AGI, the most reliable returns have come from hardware and infrastructure rather than software applications or foundation models.
  • Undervaluation Risk: The hosts noted that even when the AI boom seemed "priced in" in 2024, the stock still saw massive gains, suggesting that fundamental shifts in compute demand can outpace market expectations.

Microsoft (MSFT)

Microsoft is discussed as a major AI player that has struggled to translate its massive capital expenditures into immediate stock performance compared to hardware providers.

  • Capital Expenditure (CapEx): The market has "punished" Microsoft for its $80 billion investment in AI infrastructure.
  • Stock Performance: Despite being a leader in AI integration, the stock only returned 4% over a two-year period mentioned in the transcript.
  • Azure Growth: Cloud revenue growth remains strong, accelerating to 40% year-over-year.

Takeaways

  • The "CapEx Tax": Investors are currently wary of the massive spending required to build AI data centers, favoring the companies selling the equipment (NVIDIA) over those buying it (Microsoft).
  • Long-term vs. Short-term: While Azure growth is healthy, the "infrastructure play" by Microsoft has yet to fully pay off for shareholders in terms of valuation multiples.

Copper (HG)

Copper is described as "the new oil" due to its critical role in the physical build-out of AI data centers.

  • Price Action: Copper rose from $3.75/lb in early 2024 to an all-time high of $6.61/lb by 2026.
  • Data Center Demand: A single 100-megawatt data center requires approximately 3,000 tons of copper.
  • Usage: Data centers are projected to use half a million tons of copper annually within a few years.

Takeaways

  • Commodity Play: Investors looking for AI exposure outside of tech stocks should look at raw materials.
  • Physical Bottlenecks: The transition to AGI requires massive physical electrical infrastructure, making copper a primary beneficiary of the "Situational Awareness" trade.

Energy & Nuclear Sector (VST, CEG, OKLO)

The transcript emphasizes that the AGI trade has shifted into an "energy game," with power availability becoming the ultimate bottleneck for data center expansion.

  • Vistra (VST): Returned 321%, becoming the second-best performing S&P 500 stock in 2024.
  • Constellation Energy (CEG): Tripled in size following the launch of ChatGPT.
  • Oklo (OKLO): Surged 700% in 12 months, driven by speculative interest in small modular reactors (SMRs).
  • Nuclear Revival: Major tech firms are signing massive Power Purchase Agreements (PPAs):
    • Microsoft: $16 billion deal to restart Three Mile Island.
    • Google: 500 MW deal with Kairos Power.
    • Meta: 6.6 GW contract across multiple nuclear providers.

Takeaways

  • Energy as a Proxy for AI: Buying utility and energy stocks has become a core part of the AI investment thesis.
  • Nuclear Momentum: There is a significant shift toward nuclear energy to provide the "always-on" baseload power required by massive AI clusters.

SpaceX (Private / Upcoming IPO)

SpaceX is discussed as a potential $1.75 trillion IPO, which would be the largest "liquidity event" in history.

  • Valuation: Targeting $1.75 trillion, up from a $1 trillion private valuation.
  • Revenue: Expected 2026 revenue of $22–$24 billion.
  • Starlink: The primary growth driver, shifting SpaceX from a launch company to a global telecommunications giant.
  • XAI Merger: The valuation includes the merger with XAI, which was valued at $250 billion despite high cash burn.

Takeaways

  • Index Inclusion: If SpaceX goes public, it is expected to immediately enter the S&P 500 and NASDAQ 100, triggering massive passive buying from ETFs.
  • Retail Demand: There is expected to be "comic book heroic" demand from retail investors who view SpaceX as a "Mars" and "AI" narrative play.

Nominal (Private)

Nominal is a hardware testing and operations platform that recently raised $80 million at a $1 billion valuation, led by Founders Fund.

  • The Problem: Legacy industrial software (Excel, MATLAB) is insufficient for modern, fast-paced hardware development.
  • The Solution: A "system of record" for hardware telemetry and sensor data, used by companies like Anduril, Shinkei, and Pratt Miller.
  • Market Fit: As manufacturing "re-shores" to the U.S., the need for automated quality testing at the end of production lines is exploding.

Takeaways

  • Serious Software: There is a growing investment theme around "serious software" for aerospace, defense, and mechanical engineering, moving away from "unserious" consumer-app optimization.
  • Data Correlation: Nominal’s value lies in its ability to correlate field failures (e.g., a battery dying in a hot climate) back to specific manufacturing batches.

Investment Themes & Risks

The "SaaSpocalypse"

  • Context: Traditional Software-as-a-Service (SaaS) companies are facing headwinds as AI makes code generation cheaper.
  • Insight: SaaS vendors are attempting to offset this by imposing "AI taxes" (20-37% price increases) during renewals.

Wealth & Wage Inequality

  • Insight: AI may actually reduce wage inequality by automating high-paying "white-collar" tasks (lawyers, consultants) while low-skilled manual labor (machinists, assemblers) remains stable or sees wage growth.
  • Risk: Wealth inequality is likely to increase as capital returns concentrate in the "Mag-7" tech owners.

Geopolitical Risk (Taiwan)

  • Risk Factor: A potential blockade of Taiwan remains the "biggest trigger" for a global economic shock.
  • Leading Indicator: Increased military exercises in the Taiwan Strait and China's separation of "peaceful" from "reunification" in official five-year plans.
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Episode Description
Sign up for TBPN’s daily newsletter at TBPN.com (01:30) - Daniel Gross's AGI Trades (47:18) - 𝕏 Timeline Reactions (01:03:45) - SpaceX 1.75T IPO (01:14:36) - 𝕏 Timeline Reactions (01:20:05) - Mark Gurman, a technology journalist at Bloomberg known for his accurate Apple product predictions, discusses Apple's recent product launches, including the iPhone 17e, iPad Air M4, MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max chips, and the MacBook Neo. He highlights the strategic timing of these releases to meet pent-up demand and boost Apple's quarterly performance, noting the MacBook Neo's potential to disrupt the budget laptop market with its $600 price point. Gurman also touches on Apple's AI strategy, mentioning delays in the Gemini-powered Siri rollout and the company's cautious approach to AI hardware, emphasizing the challenges of entering the hardware market and the importance of privacy considerations. (01:44:56) - Dan Primack, business editor at Axios and author of the daily Axios Pro Rata newsletter, discusses the current state of the venture capital (VC) industry, noting that median returns have fallen below major stock indices over the past 25 years, with top-tier funds performing well but a significant influx of capital leading to mediocre returns for many. He highlights the blurring lines within VC, as investments range from early-stage startups to massive funding rounds for established companies, and points out that the traditional reasons for companies to go public—raising capital and providing liquidity—are now often addressed through private markets and secondary transactions, leading many firms to delay or avoid IPOs. Additionally, Primack observes that while some limited partners are reducing their exposure to VC, new sources of capital, including defined contribution plans, are entering the market, potentially exacerbating the disparity between top-performing funds and the rest. (02:13:33) - Max Haot, CEO of Vast, discusses his transition from internet entrepreneurship to leading a space station company aiming to replace the International Space Station (ISS) with the world's first commercial space station, Haven-1, set to launch in Q1 next year. He highlights Vast's proactive approach in building the station ahead of securing contracts, emphasizing the need for a permanent American presence in space to succeed the aging ISS. Haot also mentions the company's recent $500 million funding round, bringing total investments to over $900 million since 2001, and outlines plans to support international space agencies and develop an orbital economy through in-space manufacturing. (02:29:11) - Christian Howell, CEO of Cognito Therapeutics, is a former U.S. Navy officer with over 20 years of experience in the medical device industry. He discusses the company's development of a non-invasive therapy using light and sound stimulation to enhance gamma frequency brain activity, aiming to slow cognitive decline in Alzheimer's patients. Howell highlights the therapy's potential to preserve brain function and structure, emphasizing its accessibility for home use and the company's commitment to addressing the urgent need for effective Alzheimer's treatments. (02:42:44) - Cameron McCord, co-founder and CEO of Nominal, a company specializing in software solutions for hardware testing and operations, announced an $80 million funding round led by Founders Fund, valuing the company at $1 billion. He discussed how Nominal's platform supports hardware engineering teams by providing a unified system for testing and operations, enabling faster and more reliable validation of mission-critical systems. McCord also highlighted the company's rapid growth, including a sevenfold increase in revenue year-over-year and expansion into international markets. TBPN.com is made possible by: Ramp - https://Ramp.com AppLovin - https://axon.ai Cisco - https://www.cisco.com Cognition - https://cognition.ai Console - https://console.com CrowdStrike - https://crowdstrike.com ElevenLabs - https://elevenlabs.io Figma - https://figma.com Fin - https://fin.ai Gemini - https://gemini.google.com Graphite - https://graphite.com Gusto - https://gusto.com/tbpn Kalshi - https://kalshi.com Labelbox - https://labelbox.com Lambda - https://lambda.ai Linear - https://linear.app MongoDB - https://mongodb.com NYSE - https://nyse.com Okta - https://www.okta.com Phantom - https://phantom.com/cash Plaid - https://plaid.com Public - https://public.com Railway - https://railway.com Restream - https://restream.io Sentry - https://sentry.io Shopify - https://shopify.com/tbpn Turbopuffer - https://turbopuffer.com Vanta - https://vanta.com Vibe - https://vibe.co Follow TBPN:  https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive
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By John Coogan & Jordi Hays

Technology's daily show (formerly the Technology Brothers Podcast). Streaming live on X and YouTube from 11 - 2 PM PST Monday - Friday. Available on X, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube.