• Consider researching Hyperliquid (HYPE) as a way to gain exposure to the growing perpetual-futures sector; the thesis is business growth, not a specific price target.
• Lighter (LIT) may merit further research after its drop from about $3 to below $1, but weigh the bullish view against the speaker’s advisory relationship and the lack of a valuation target.
• Favor spot positions over leveraged crypto trades: the discussion cites negative expected value above 8x leverage and highlights liquidation and position-sizing risks.
• Treat Paper Trade as highly speculative until adoption, liquidity, and its manipulation and debt risks are better established.

Perpetual Futures and Derivatives

• The discussion is broadly bullish on perpetual futures (“perps”) as a growing crypto market. Jez sees them as a strong business opportunity because of demand for leveraged trading, and argues that the sector could grow substantially regardless of whether Bitcoin is in a bull or bear market.
• He favors businesses that generate revenue and return value to token holders over assets whose appeal depends mainly on hype or short-term retail flows.
• Perps may attract users who want simple, high-leverage exposure. Jez argues that products with straightforward interfaces and no market impact may be more accessible to retail traders than traditional order books.
• He believes perps could take market share from options, but views the sector’s continued growth—not a specific token price—as the central thesis.

Takeaways

• A possible way to express the sector thesis is to research the businesses and tokens tied to perp trading, rather than assume one specific protocol will capture all the growth.
• The transcript strongly cautions against treating leveraged trading as a reliable route to returns: even a directionally correct trade can lose money at high leverage because of price volatility and liquidation risk.
• Jez says trading became negative expected value in a cited study above 8x leverage, even when the trader was correct about the asset’s direction over the measured period. He favors spot for most people.

Hyperliquid (HYPE)

• Hyperliquid is presented as a leading perp protocol and a “good business,” in contrast with assets the speakers describe as more speculative or vaporous.
• The speakers point to growing institutional visibility, including Trade XYZ tickers on Bloomberg, and discuss Hyperliquid as a protocol whose performance has been less dependent on the broader crypto market’s cycle.
• Jez says he is bullish on Hyperliquid, but notes that the perp thesis is no longer as contrarian or novel as it was previously.
• The conversation refers to HYPE at about $94 while discussing the argument that the token is “too expensive.” Jez responds that focusing on the token’s nominal price misses the larger question of how much the perp market could grow.
• He views Hyperliquid’s deep order book as a useful source of pricing data for new on-chain applications.

Takeaways

• The investment case described is primarily a growth-of-perps thesis, not a price target or valuation forecast.
• Consider whether future market growth and token demand could support the thesis, while recognizing that the transcript does not provide a specific HYPE price target.
• The discussion also notes a potential obstacle for projects built on Hyperliquid: many HYPE holders may prefer holding HYPE rather than rotating into ecosystem tokens.

Lighter (LIT)

• Jez describes Lighter as a high-quality project whose token fell from around $3 to below $1 after its launch. He says he bought as it declined, believing the price move reflected prior excitement and investor sentiment rather than a deterioration in the underlying business.
• He cites his familiarity with the team—he is an advisor—as one reason for his conviction.
• The project’s zero-fee retail trading and its security approach are presented as potential competitive strengths. Jez also describes it as an important example of complex development on Ethereum.
• He frames Lighter as an example of an asset that may be mispriced when investors misunderstand the project or follow price momentum rather than assessing the business.

Takeaways

• The discussion suggests examining a project’s team, product, and competitive position separately from short-term token-price movements.
• This is a high-conviction view from someone with a close relationship to the project; that relationship is relevant context when weighing the opinion.
• The transcript gives no specific price target or timeline for LIT.

Variational

• Variational is named alongside Hyperliquid and Lighter as a perp-related project Jez is bullish on.
• No additional details, valuation, token symbol, or specific investment rationale for Variational are provided.

Takeaways

• The mention reflects general optimism about perp-related businesses, but the transcript does not offer enough project-specific information to assess Variational independently.

Paper Trade

• Jez describes Paper Trade as an on-chain trading product intended to create a new liquidity primitive. It is designed to let users or applications open positions through a smart contract, with pricing informed by Hyperliquid’s order book.
• The design uses an asymmetric profit-and-loss fee: the protocol takes part of a winning trader’s profits while charging no fee on the losing side. Jez says this is intended to support very high leverage without conventional trading fees or market impact.
• The project’s token is described as being earned when traders close positions at a loss. The stated design goal is to tie token issuance to the protocol earning money and improving the health of its liquidity pool.
• The conversation discusses potential risks in the design, including price manipulation, reliance on the underlying Hyperliquid market for pricing, and the possibility of temporary protocol insolvency, which can leave winners with queued debt.
• Jez presents the project as an early experiment on HyperEVM, not as an established business with demonstrated adoption.

Takeaways

• Treat Paper Trade as a speculative, early-stage project. Its investment case depends on whether users adopt the product and whether its liquidity and token mechanics work as intended.
• The transcript does not establish that the token will gain value or give a price target.
• The discussion’s own risk points—manipulation, liquidity health, and queued debt—are important to understand before evaluating the project.

Sky and USDS

• Sky and its stablecoin USDS are cited as examples of older crypto projects that may still be fundamentally durable.
• Jez says he considers it likely that USDS will still exist in 10 years, and argues against assuming that every older token or protocol is inferior to newer launches.
• Sky is presented as a business that persisted through governance difficulties and remained relevant.

Takeaways

• The discussion favors assessing an established protocol’s ongoing business and durability rather than dismissing it solely because it is old.
• The transcript does not provide a specific Sky token symbol, price target, or detailed valuation case.

BNB

• BNB is described as an example of an exchange-related asset that has been less dependent on the usual crypto market cycle.
• Jez says it has not experienced a conventional bear market in the way many other crypto assets have, and associates its relative resilience with its exchange and perp activity.

Takeaways

• The point is that exchange-linked businesses may have different drivers from more speculative tokens, but the transcript does not provide a BNB price target or a detailed valuation analysis.

Bitcoin (BTC)

• Bitcoin is described as trading in the mid-$80,000s in the market context discussed. The speakers say Bitcoin holders were somewhat happier as prices rose, but focus less on BTC’s direction than on the growth of perp businesses.
• Jez uses Bitcoin as an example of an asset that can suit a long-term, high-conviction spot thesis.
• He also recounts losing money on a leveraged Bitcoin long entered around $103,000 after Bitcoin fell below $100,000. The loss prompted him to recognize that his position size was too large.

Takeaways

• The transcript supports separating a long-term Bitcoin thesis from short-term leveraged trades; it does not offer a Bitcoin price target.
• Jez’s experience underscores the importance of position limits and avoiding trades made while emotional or trying to recover losses.

Ethereum (ETH)

• Ethereum is discussed as an important ecosystem for Lighter and as a place where decentralization-focused investors have had relatively few compelling projects in recent years.
• Jez recounts past leveraged ETH trades as examples of poor risk management, including a high-leverage short that contributed to a major loss.
• He does not present a specific current ETH investment thesis or price target.

Takeaways

• The transcript’s main actionable point about ETH is caution around leveraged positioning; its positive comments relate mainly to projects being built on Ethereum, not a direct ETH recommendation.

Zcash (ZEC) and Pump

• Zcash and Pump are mentioned as examples of highly euphoric “hype” assets during the market period being discussed.
• The speakers contrast that excitement with their preference for identifying sustainable businesses and distinguishing them from meme coins or other speculative assets.
• Jez also mentions ZEC as an example of an asset on which a concentrated, high-conviction position had worked for him. This is a personal example, not a price target or general recommendation.

Takeaways

• The discussion presents these assets as highly sentiment-sensitive. Do not interpret the mention of a successful trade or market euphoria as a standalone investment thesis.
• The transcript provides no specific price targets, timelines, or project fundamentals for either asset.

Rollbit

• Jez says he became a significant investor in Rollbit after encountering its high-leverage, zero-slippage perp product.
• He later sold his Rollbit position because the product’s very high leverage made it tempting to take oversized trades. He identifies this as a personal risk-management decision, not a criticism of the casino business.
• The product’s design also informs Paper Trade’s approach to asymmetric fees and leveraged trading.

Takeaways

• Rollbit is discussed as an example of how an appealing trading product can also encourage excessive risk-taking.
• Jez’s experience supports evaluating a platform’s user incentives and trading mechanics—not only its growth potential—before investing.

Uniswap (UNI), GMX, and Other Crypto Exchanges

• Jez says several of his more successful historical crypto investments were exchange or trading-related projects, naming Uniswap, GMX, Rollbit, Hyperliquid, and Lighter.
• He describes this pattern as one reason for his interest in trading businesses, though the transcript does not provide detailed current views or price targets for Uniswap or GMX.

Takeaways

• The speaker’s historical successes suggest an area of personal expertise and interest, but past performance does not establish that these tokens are attractive at current prices.
• Evaluate each protocol’s current business, token economics, and likely future flows separately.

Amazon (AMZN), GameStop (GME), and AMC

• Jez recounts selling a full-position investment in Amazon and putting the proceeds into an altcoin, describing it as one of his worst trades.
• He also discusses the short-dated options activity around GameStop and AMC as part of his earlier experience as a market maker. These stocks are mentioned as examples of speculative trading behavior, not as current investment ideas.

Takeaways

• The Amazon anecdote illustrates the opportunity cost of abandoning a business investment for a speculative trade.
• The discussion of GME and AMC is historical context about options trading; no current recommendation or price target is given.