Cracks Forming In The AI Trade with Peter Boockvar
Cracks Forming In The AI Trade with Peter Boockvar
Podcast32 min 7 sec
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

The Energy sector is presented as a top opportunity, with oil viewed as one of the cheapest assets globally, offering a favorable risk/reward for a move towards $70-$80 per barrel. For investors seeking defensive positioning, the Big Pharma sector is highlighted as an attractive area to park money due to its underperformance and high dividend yields. Consider well-performing companies like Eli Lilly (LLY), Merck (MRK), and Bristol Myers (BMY) which offer bond-like yields with potential equity upside. Conversely, exercise caution with the AI trade as concerns grow over massive capital spending and the potential for declining profit margins. The entire AI narrative faces a critical test with NVIDIA's (NVDA) earnings report on November 19th, where any sign of margin degradation could signal the story is unraveling.

Detailed Analysis

Artificial Intelligence (AI) Sector

  • The podcast expresses a cautious to bearish sentiment, highlighting that "cracks in the AI trade" are beginning to form.
  • The primary concern is the massive capital expenditure (CapEx) required for the AI build-out, which is changing the business models of traditionally "asset-light" tech companies.
  • There's a growing debate around the return on investment (ROI) for this spending, with fears that companies might be building "one extra data center that we don't need."
  • The rapid pace of technological advancement raises questions about the depreciation schedules for AI chips. The current 6-8 year depreciation schedule is questioned, with some arguing it should be closer to 6-8 months, which would artificially lift current earnings.
  • Competition is a major factor. Not only are the big U.S. tech companies competing with each other, but China is emerging as a huge competitor by creating open-source AI models that will be priced for free, potentially commoditizing the market and pressuring margins for U.S. firms.
  • The historical parallel to the dot-com bubble is drawn: the internet didn't go away, but not every company was a winner, and even the winners didn't win to the magnitude initially expected.

Takeaways

  • Investors should be cautious about the AI trade and question the sustainability of the massive spending.
  • Pay close attention to company earnings reports for any signs of margin degradation or changes in CapEx plans.
  • The narrative is shifting from pure growth to scrutinizing the profitability and ROI of AI investments.
  • Consider the long-term risk of commoditization, especially with international competition from players like China.

Oracle (ORCL)

  • Described as a "cautionary tale" for the AI sector.
  • The stock saw a massive run-up from around $225 to $345 in early September based on revenue projections, but has since retraced the entire move back to $225.
  • A significant portion of Oracle's future revenue commitments ($300 billion out of $500 billion) is tied to OpenAI, creating a concentrated risk.
  • The company's spending is highlighted as a major concern. Oracle is spending 52% of its revenue on CapEx, a dramatic increase from just 10% in 2021. This spending is eating up 50-75% of EBITDA.

Takeaways

  • The stock's recent round-trip price action suggests the market is becoming skeptical of the company's aggressive AI-related spending and its heavy reliance on a single customer (OpenAI).
  • Investors should view Oracle as a company whose business model has fundamentally changed from an asset-light software company to a capital-intensive infrastructure player, which warrants a different valuation approach.

Meta Platforms (META)

  • Despite a great quarter with revenue growth over 20%, the market gave the stock a "complete thumbs down" due to its massive spending plans.
  • Meta is spending 35% of its revenue on CapEx, compared to the low teens historically.
  • There is concern among investors that this spending spree could be a "metaverse 2.0 in terms of wasted money."
  • The company is building a 4 million square foot facility costing almost $30 billion, highlighting the scale of its investment and the associated risk if the capacity is not fully needed in the future.

Takeaways

  • The market is signaling that it is no longer rewarding companies for spending at all costs, even if top-line growth is strong.
  • Investors in META should monitor the company's capital expenditures closely and look for evidence that these investments are generating a tangible return, to avoid a repeat of the costly metaverse pivot.

NVIDIA (NVDA)

  • NVIDIA's upcoming earnings report on November 19th is seen as a critical event for the entire AI narrative. The company "really need[s] to deliver."
  • A key risk to watch for is margin degradation. Any sign of weakening margins could be the point where the "story starts to unravel."
  • Another important factor is the obsolescence rate of its chips. As new, more powerful chips are released, the value of older chips in data centers could decline faster than accounted for, impacting long-term profitability.

Takeaways

  • The upcoming earnings report is a major catalyst. Investors should watch for any guidance on future demand and, most importantly, the stability of the company's high profit margins.
  • The discussion around chip obsolescence is a long-term risk factor that could impact the valuation of companies involved in the data center build-out.

Cisco (CSCO)

  • Cisco is mentioned as a historical lesson from the dot-com bubble. It was the "backbone of the internet" in the late 90s.
  • 25 years later, the stock has only just come within $1 of its March 2000 high.

Takeaways

  • This serves as a powerful reminder that even for dominant, essential technology companies at the center of a boom, it can take decades for stock prices to recover from bubble-like valuations.

Bitcoin (BTC)

  • The speaker views Bitcoin as a risk-on/risk-off asset that trades more in line with the NASDAQ 100 than as a "digital gold" or store of value.
  • The recent price action is seen as a "cautionary tale." The transcript mentions a peak around $124,000-$125,000 and a current price around $95,000.
  • The fact that Bitcoin's price stopped rising despite hundreds of corporate treasuries buying it was seen as a signal that the "trade's about to rest."
  • The breakdown below $100,000 (as per the transcript's figures) is viewed as a reflection of a broader decline in risk-taking appetite among investors.

Takeaways

  • Investors should treat Bitcoin as a high-risk asset correlated with speculative technology stocks, not as a safe-haven asset like gold.
  • For Bitcoin to fulfill its promise as a true store of value, its correlation with the NASDAQ would need to decrease and its correlation with gold would need to increase.

Energy Sector

  • The sentiment is very bullish, with the speaker stating that "a barrel of oil is one of the cheapest assets in the world right now."
  • Energy companies are highlighted as being highly profitable even with oil prices at $60/barrel, generating healthy free cash flow and paying nice dividends.
  • The speaker sees limited downside for oil (perhaps to $50, where OPEC would likely cut production), but believes the upside is much greater, stating it's a matter of "when, not if" oil goes to $70 or $80.

Takeaways

  • The energy sector is presented as an attractive investment opportunity with a favorable risk/reward profile.
  • Investors can gain exposure to companies that are profitable at current prices but have significant earnings upside if oil prices rise.
  • The sector offers a combination of value, cash flow, and dividends, making it an interesting area to consider.

Big Pharma / Healthcare Sector

  • This sector, along with consumer staples, has had a "crappy year" but is now starting to attract investor attention as a defensive play.
  • These stocks are seen as a place to "park some money" in a challenging economy, offering "bond-like dividend yields with potentially equity-like upside."
  • Specific companies mentioned as performing well include Eli Lilly (LLY), Merck (MRK), and Bristol Myers (BMY).
  • There are signs of a more favorable regulatory environment and an increase in M&A activity, which could provide further tailwinds for the sector.

Takeaways

  • For investors looking for defensive positioning with income and growth potential, large-cap pharmaceutical stocks may be an attractive option.
  • The combination of underperformance, high dividend yields, and improving industry fundamentals could signal a good entry point.
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Episode Description
In this RiskReversal podcast episode, Guy Adami and Peter Boockvar discuss recent market trends, including the shifts in AI dominance and financial stresses at Oracle. They analyze the stock market's reaction to Meta's spending and the implications for data center build-outs. The conversation covers the competitive landscape with AI and the potential overrates in hardware infrastructure. They also discuss the unusual dynamics in the US economy and the job market's deceleration, touching on Bitcoin's correlation with other assets. Finally, they explore the bullish outlook on energy stocks and the rebound in big-cap pharma amid regulatory clarity. —FOLLOW USYouTube: @RiskReversalMediaInstagram: @riskreversalmediaTwitter: @RiskReversalLinkedIn: RiskReversal Media
About RiskReversal Pod
RiskReversal Pod

RiskReversal Pod

By RiskReversal Media

Welcome to the RiskReversal Pod, where Dan Nathan and Guy Adami are joined by the most brilliant minds in markets and tech.  We break down the most important market moving headlines to help listeners make better informed investing decisions. Our goal is to deconstruct Wall Street speak and offer contrarian insights and strategies that help investors navigate increasingly volatile markets. Tune into the RiskReversal Pod Monday through Friday for succinct 30 minute pod drops of market analysis that you won't find anywhere else. For new episodes of On The Tape with Danny Moses, search "On The Tape" in your favorite podcast platform. — FOLLOW US YouTube: @RiskReversalMedia Instagram: @riskreversalmedia Twitter: @RiskReversal LinkedIn: RiskReversal Media