China Is Winning the AI War and Nobody's Talking About It with Deirdre Bosa & Gene Munster
China Is Winning the AI War and Nobody's Talking About It with Deirdre Bosa & Gene Munster
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Google (GOOGL) is a top pick for the year, with analysts expecting its AI-driven search monetization and Apple partnership to drive growth above Wall Street's forecasts. Consider Apple (AAPL) as a high-risk trade into its June WWDC event, where a competent AI reveal could cause the stock to re-rate higher. The indiscriminate sell-off in the SaaS sector may present a buying opportunity in resilient companies with deep operational moats, such as Salesforce (CRM). Despite recent weakness, NVIDIA (NVDA) offers a compelling long-term investment due to its low valuation and the massive, underestimated market for AI inference. After a significant 23% drop, Meta Platforms (META) is becoming an attractive value play for investors as it gets closer to a buy.

Detailed Analysis

NVIDIA (NVDA)

  • The speakers discuss that despite positive news from CES, the stock's performance has been lackluster, suggesting investors are looking further ahead and may be concerned about growth in 2027.
  • There's a sense that the "positive narrative around the trade is diminishing," with investors questioning if the magnitude of future growth will be as large as previously expected.
  • The valuation is highlighted as attractive, with a mention of its Price-to-Earnings-to-Growth (PEG) ratio being around 0.5, which is considered very low.
  • A key bullish point is that the market may be underestimating the long-term potential of inference (the use of AI models to generate answers or "think") compared to training (the initial building of the models).
    • The belief is that the market for inference could be "hundreds of thousands of times bigger" than the training market, which would require a massive build-out of GPUs far beyond current expectations.
  • The speakers note that the bigger the disconnect between the company's strong fundamentals and its stagnant stock price, the more attractive the investment becomes.

Takeaways

  • Sentiment is mixed: While the company's fundamentals are strong, investor sentiment appears to have cooled, with some believing it may not be a "great stock this year" even if it remains a great company.
  • Focus on Inference vs. Training: The long-term investment thesis hinges on whether the demand for inference will create a new, even larger wave of GPU sales after the initial training boom. A belief in this future makes the stock attractive.
  • Valuation as a key support: The stock's low PEG ratio suggests it is cheap relative to its high growth rate, which could limit downside and attract value-oriented growth investors.

Google (GOOGL)

  • Gene Munster identifies Google as his top performing Mag-7 pick for the entire year.
  • The company is expected to beat Wall Street's search growth expectations for the year, with one speaker forecasting 14%+ growth versus the consensus of 12%.
  • A primary driver for this growth is the successful monetization of AI Overviews and AI Mode in search results, where the percentage of queries showing ads is rapidly increasing.
  • The partnership with Apple, where Google's Gemini will help power Apple's new AI features, is seen as a significant catalyst that may not be fully priced into the stock.
  • While the user experience in the browser is described as a "mess" and a "hodgepodge," it is leading to more overall searches and prompts, which ultimately drives ad revenue.
  • The valuation is noted as becoming more expensive, trading at 29 times fiscal 2026 earnings.

Takeaways

  • Bullish outlook: The core investment thesis is that Google's search business will re-accelerate thanks to the effective monetization of its new AI features, leading to upward earnings revisions.
  • Apple partnership is a key catalyst: The deal to integrate Gemini into Apple devices provides a massive new distribution channel and revenue stream that supports the bullish case.
  • Monitor the valuation: The stock has performed very well and is no longer considered cheap. Continued outperformance will depend on the company delivering on these high growth expectations.

Apple (AAPL)

  • Identified as a top pick for the first six months of the year.
  • The main catalyst is the upcoming Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC) in June, where Apple is expected to reveal its AI strategy, including a revamped Siri and Apple Intelligence.
  • The market's expectation is low; Apple simply needs to demonstrate "competency" in AI to potentially cause the stock's valuation multiple to expand.
  • There is significant risk tied to this event. If the AI demonstration disappoints, the stock could fall 15-20%. However, the long-term belief is that Apple will "eventually get it right" due to its massive user base and control over its ecosystem.
  • The rise of AI-powered coding assistants could create a new "App Store moment," enabling a massive explosion of new apps that could be a huge unlock for Apple's services business.

Takeaways

  • Catalyst-driven trade: This is a bet on a positive outcome from the WWDC event in June. A convincing AI demonstration could cause the stock to re-rate higher.
  • High risk, high reward: Investors should be aware of the significant downside risk if the WWDC presentation fails to impress.
  • Long-term security: Even if there is a short-term stumble, the speakers believe Apple's powerful ecosystem and loyal customer base give it time and opportunity to ultimately succeed in AI.

SaaS (Software as a Service) Sector

  • The entire sector is described as being in a "world of pain" due to the disruptive threat from new AI-first coding platforms like Replit and Anthropic's Claude.
  • Adobe (ADBE) is mentioned as an example, having dropped 20% in just a couple of weeks on these fears.
  • Salesforce (CRM) is described as acting like an "inverse AI stock," tending to fall whenever there is a major AI breakthrough.
  • A distinction is made between different types of SaaS companies:
    • Resilient: Companies with a deep "systems of record" moat, like Salesforce (CRM) and Workday (WDAY), are seen as more likely to survive because their complex systems are difficult to replicate.
    • Vulnerable: Companies whose tools are more easily disrupted by AI, such as Zendesk (ZEN) and Atlassian (TEAM), are considered to be at higher risk.

Takeaways

  • Indiscriminate selling may create opportunities: The market appears to be selling off the entire SaaS sector. This could allow investors to buy shares in higher-quality, more resilient companies at a discount.
  • Focus on the "moat": When evaluating SaaS investments, consider how easily the company's product could be replicated by AI. Companies that are deeply embedded in a customer's core operations ("systems of record") are likely safer bets.
  • High-risk area: The threat of AI disruption is real and is causing significant volatility in these stocks.

Microsoft (MSFT)

  • The stock has been trading poorly, and CEO Satya Nadella's public tone on AI has become more cautious, acknowledging competition and the challenges of monetization.
  • Investors are moving from pure optimism to a "show me" phase, demanding to see tangible adoption and revenue from AI products like Copilot.
  • The user experience of current AI integrations is cited as a headwind. One speaker notes that using Copilot in PowerPoint "puts junk back at me," indicating the product is not yet delivering on its promise.
  • Despite the challenges, the long-term opportunity is immense due to Microsoft's distribution power within its Office suite. One speaker is an "advocate to get it into our funds" once the products improve.

Takeaways

  • Sentiment has cooled: The initial hype has faded, and the stock's performance now hinges on proving the business case for its AI products.
  • Product quality is key: The turning point for the stock will likely be when products like Copilot become genuinely useful and drive widespread adoption. Investors should monitor reviews and usage metrics for these tools.
  • Long-term potential remains: Microsoft's massive enterprise customer base gives it a powerful advantage for distributing AI tools once they are ready for primetime.

Meta Platforms (META)

  • The stock has fallen significantly, down about 23% from its recent all-time highs, and sentiment is described as poor.
  • The primary concern is margin pressure. The company guided for revenue to grow faster than earnings (18% vs. 11%), which implies heavy spending on AI is eating into profitability.
  • This sell-off has made the valuation "very cheap" relative to its peers and the broader market.
  • The stock is described as "getting closer to a buy."

Takeaways

  • A potential value play: For investors comfortable with negative sentiment, Meta's depressed stock price and cheap valuation could present a buying opportunity.
  • Watch for margin stabilization: A turnaround in the stock will likely require a signal from management that the period of heavy investment is peaking and that profit margins will begin to improve.
  • Patience required: The speakers suggest the stock may need a longer period to "rebase itself" before it begins to recover, so this may not be a short-term trade.

Amazon (AMZN)

  • Described as an attractive "dumpster diving" opportunity within the Mag-7 mega-cap stocks.
  • The company has been "largely dismissed by the AI trade," meaning it hasn't seen the same hype-driven run as some of its peers.
  • The opportunity for its cloud division, AWS, is noted, but the AI narrative has not been the primary driver of the stock.
  • It is framed as a bet on a "really good company" at a potentially more reasonable valuation, though it lacks a clear, immediate AI catalyst.

Takeaways

  • A potential sleeper pick: Amazon could be an attractive option for investors looking for exposure to big tech without paying the high valuation multiples associated with the pure-play AI names.
  • Less froth, solid fundamentals: The investment thesis is based on the strength of its core e-commerce and cloud businesses, rather than a speculative AI story.
  • "Go to Vegas with it": This comment implies it's a solid, reliable company, but the timing of a major move higher is uncertain.

Memory & Storage Sector (Micron, Western Digital)

  • This sector, which includes companies like Micron (MU), SK Hynix, and Samsung, has experienced a "huge, huge ramp" and the sentiment feels like a "mania."
  • The rally is driven by massive AI-related demand for high-bandwidth memory, creating a situation of tight supply and strong pricing power for these companies.
  • SanDisk, which is part of Western Digital (WDC), is used as an extreme example, with its stock up 800% since September.
  • Despite the massive run, it's noted that some of these stocks may still trade at reasonable valuations (e.g., below a market multiple on a PE basis).
  • The speakers caution that this is historically a "boom and bust" cyclical business.

Takeaways

  • Be cautious of chasing the mania: This sector has been one of the hottest parts of the market. Investors late to the party should be wary of buying at a potential peak.
  • Cyclical risks: The memory business is highly cyclical. While demand is strong now, a future normalization could cause these stocks to fall sharply, as they have in past cycles.
  • Fundamentals still matter: Even with the "fever" in the sector, some valuations may not be extreme. Investors should analyze individual companies rather than buying the sector blindly.

Investment Theme: China vs. US AI

  • The competition between the US and China in AI is a critical theme. China is no longer just catching up; it is producing competitive open-source models like DeepSeq that are gaining global adoption because they are "good enough and it's cheaper."
  • The focus of the battle is shifting from AI software models to hardware. China is aggressively pursuing self-sufficiency with established players like Huawei and a new group of upstarts called the "four dragons" that are raising billions through IPOs in Asia.
  • US tech CEOs are increasingly using the "China threat" as a talking point to lobby Washington for favorable policies, such as support for data center energy and less regulation.

Takeaways

  • Monitor the hardware space: China's progress in developing its own advanced chips is a major risk for Western companies like NVIDIA but could create opportunities in the emerging Chinese semiconductor firms.
  • Geopolitics is a key driver: Investment outcomes in the tech sector will be heavily influenced by trade policies, export controls, and government subsidies in both the US and China.
  • Look for low-cost disruption: The rise of cheaper, "good enough" AI models from China could challenge the pricing power and market share of dominant US AI companies over the long term.
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Episode Description
Dan Nathan and Deirdre Bosa discuss recent advancements in AI-driven coding tools like Replit and Claude Cowork, sharing personal experiences and their potential to disrupt traditional software development. They elaborate on conversations with Amjad Masad of Replit and Aaron Levie of Box about the future of AI in software. The discussion also touches on the US-China AI rivalry, with CEOs from major tech companies urging policy support to compete with China's subsidized AI ecosystem. The conversation highlights concerns over software disruption, the impact of AI on the software market, and geopolitical implications for AI innovation. After the break, Dan chats with Gene Munster, Managing Partner at Deepwater Asset Management, discuss the current state and future trends in AI-related investments as of 2026. Gene shares his perspectives on the AI market’s evolution over recent years, particularly focusing on key players like Nvidia and the dynamics around training versus inference. They talk about the impact of recent developments in coding assistants like Claude from Anthropic and its implications for the technology sector. The conversation also covers the valuation and growth prospects of major tech firms including Google, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, and Meta, highlighting their individual strategies and market performance. The dialogue underscores a cautious optimism in the AI sector, with a focus on how technological advancements and market sentiment will influence investment decisions. Links Watch Dee's Convo with Replit's CEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOa3SfkQ0vE Watch Dee's Convo with the CEO of Box: https://www.cnbc.com/video/2024/11/12/box-ceo-trumps-deregulation-could-spark-a-tech-supercycle.html —FOLLOW USYouTube: @RiskReversalMediaInstagram: @riskreversalmediaTwitter: @RiskReversalLinkedIn: RiskReversal Media
About RiskReversal Pod
RiskReversal Pod

RiskReversal Pod

By RiskReversal Media

Welcome to the RiskReversal Pod, where Dan Nathan and Guy Adami are joined by the most brilliant minds in markets and tech.  We break down the most important market moving headlines to help listeners make better informed investing decisions. Our goal is to deconstruct Wall Street speak and offer contrarian insights and strategies that help investors navigate increasingly volatile markets. Tune into the RiskReversal Pod Monday through Friday for succinct 30 minute pod drops of market analysis that you won't find anywhere else. For new episodes of On The Tape with Danny Moses, search "On The Tape" in your favorite podcast platform. — FOLLOW US YouTube: @RiskReversalMedia Instagram: @riskreversalmedia Twitter: @RiskReversal LinkedIn: RiskReversal Media