The End of Human Driving? with Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi | On With Kara Swisher
The End of Human Driving? with Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi | On With Kara Swisher
140 days agoPivotNew York Magazine
Podcast47 min 12 sec
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Uber (UBER) is a compelling investment as its use of AI is already driving significant profitability and 20% revenue growth. The Uber Eats division is a key growth driver, with management believing it could ultimately become larger than the core mobility business. For long-term exposure to the Autonomous Vehicle (AV) theme, consider UBER's strategy to become the central booking platform for various AV fleets. Investors should monitor the competitive dynamic between UBER's open platform and Tesla's (TSLA) closed ecosystem, as TSLA plans its own competing ride-sharing network. Finally, watch for opportunities in Chinese AV manufacturers, who are described as being "way ahead" in producing the hardware for the AV revolution.

Detailed Analysis

Uber (UBER)

  • CEO Dara Khosrowshahi describes Uber as an "applied AI company," stating that Artificial Intelligence has been part of its genetics for a long time and powers most aspects of the business, including pricing, driver matching, routing, and Uber Eats recommendations.
  • The company is seeing significant benefits from AI, with Khosrowshahi stating it's translating into "hundreds of millions of dollars of benefit" and the spending on AI has been "well worth it and then some."
  • A major impact of AI is on developer productivity. 80-90% of developers use AI tools, making them more productive. Instead of cutting headcount, Uber is hiring more engineers because they have become more valuable, which could lead to significant margin expansion as the company grows.
  • Uber Eats is described as an "absolute star" in the company's portfolio, growing from 10% to almost 50% of the business. The CEO believes the Eats business could ultimately be bigger than the mobility business.
  • The company is now profitable and growing its top line at 20-21%.
  • Uber's strategy for Autonomous Vehicles (AVs) is to be a platform and reservation system for other AV companies, not to build the cars itself. The goal is to have "every great qualified robot driver on our platform."
  • The business model for AVs on Uber's network is compared to Marriott (MAR), which doesn't own its hotels. Uber plans to bring demand to fleets of AVs that will be owned by financial companies and other fleet operators.

Takeaways

  • Bullish Sentiment: The CEO is very bullish on Uber's future, driven by the integration of AI, the growth of Uber Eats, and the massive long-term opportunity in autonomous vehicles.
  • AI as a Profit Driver: Uber is a prime example of a company that benefits from AI without building foundational models. Investors should see its AI integration not as a cost center, but as a key driver of efficiency, margin expansion, and revenue growth.
  • AV Platform Play: Uber is positioning itself as the central, brand-agnostic platform for the coming AV transition. This strategy aims to capture the network effects and demand aggregation without the massive capital expenditure and risk of manufacturing cars. Success hinges on its ability to partner with all major AV players.
  • Uber Eats Growth: The rapid growth and potential future size of Uber Eats make it a critical component of Uber's value proposition, possibly even more so than its original ride-sharing business.

Autonomous Vehicle (AV) Sector

  • Uber's CEO calls AVs the "single greatest opportunity for Uber" and believes that eventually, all cars could be driven by software.
  • Timeline: The transition is expected to be gradual. Khosrowshahi estimates that by 2030, AVs might account for 10% of trip volume in the US. He believes it will take 20 to 30 years for AVs to fully "win out" over human drivers.
  • Bullish Case:
    • Safety: The primary argument is safety. AVs are expected to be significantly safer than human drivers as they don't get tired, text, or become distracted. Khosrowshahi poses the question: "If an AV is provably 50 times safer than a human being, do you think we should allow human beings to drive?"
    • Cost: AVs are expected to eventually become a cheaper form of transportation, though this is estimated to be 10 to 15 years away.
    • Consumer Adoption: The customer experience is described as "delightful." Most users who try an AV ride rate the experience very highly (4.9 stars).
  • Risks & Headwinds:
    • High Cost: The vehicles are currently "super expensive," and profitability for AV services is not expected for a few years.
    • Regulation: Regulatory hurdles are a significant issue, with ongoing discussions around accessibility, congestion, and ensuring a responsible transition for human drivers.
    • Public Perception & Liability: Society is far less tolerant of mistakes made by robots than by humans. A crash involving an AV is a "disaster" for the industry, creating high stakes for safety.
    • Labor Displacement: The transition will displace human drivers. While Uber's CEO believes they will employ more drivers in 10 years due to overall growth, he acknowledges that in 20-30 years, that number will decline, and there is no clear plan yet for those displaced workers.

Takeaways

  • Long-Term Horizon: The AV sector is a long-term investment theme. While the technology is "absolutely coming," significant financial returns and widespread adoption are likely a decade or more away.
  • Hybrid Model is Key: For the next 10-20 years, the most successful model will likely be a hybrid network that combines human drivers with AVs, allowing for a gradual and responsible transition. Companies that can manage this hybrid model effectively, like Uber, may have an advantage.
  • Safety is the Ultimate Catalyst: The core value proposition of AVs is safety. Milestones and data proving superior safety to human drivers will be critical catalysts for both regulatory approval and public acceptance.

Key AV Players & Competitive Landscape

  • Waymo (Alphabet - GOOGL):
    • Mentioned as a key AV technology leader and a partner with Uber in Phoenix.
    • However, Waymo operates its own app in San Francisco, highlighting the "coopetition" dynamic. Waymo is a partner but also a potential competitor in the ride-hailing space.
    • Khosrowshahi expects major players like Waymo to maintain their own direct-to-consumer brands but also partner with Uber to maximize vehicle utilization and revenue.
  • Tesla (TSLA):
    • Positioned as a direct competitor that has not partnered with Uber.
    • Tesla is reportedly starting to roll out its own AV ride-sharing network, which would compete directly with Uber's vision of being the central platform.
    • The transcript mentions a $240 million legal judgment against Tesla for an Autopilot crash, underscoring the significant liability risks in this sector.
  • Chinese Manufacturers (e.g., Pony.ai):
    • China is described as moving faster and being "way ahead" in its ability to manufacture sophisticated AV-ready cars at a reasonable price.
    • This manufacturing lead is said to be "growing, not shrinking."
    • This suggests that Chinese companies could become dominant forces in producing the hardware for the AV revolution, even if US companies lead on software. Uber is actively partnering with Chinese firms outside of the US.
  • Other Partners (Aurora/AUR, Lucid/LCID, Stellantis/STLA):
    • Uber has investments or collaborations with a wide range of companies. This "platform approach" involves making small investments to gain insight, credibility, and help the entire ecosystem develop.
    • In a partnership with Lucid and Neuro, Uber will initially buy the cars to prove the revenue model before transitioning to a third-party ownership model.

Takeaways

  • A Fragmented and Competitive Field: The AV space is not a winner-take-all market yet. Investors should watch the "coopetition" dynamic between tech developers (Waymo, Tesla) and platform aggregators (Uber).
  • Tesla as a Walled Garden: Tesla's strategy of building a closed ecosystem (cars, software, and ride-hailing network) is a direct threat to Uber's open-platform model. The success of either strategy will have major implications for the industry.
  • Watch Chinese Manufacturing: The manufacturing prowess of Chinese companies is a critical, and perhaps underestimated, factor. Their ability to produce cost-effective AVs could make them essential partners for Western companies or formidable global competitors.
  • Partnerships are Key Indicators: Pay attention to which AV developers partner with platforms like Uber. These partnerships can validate the technology and provide a faster path to market and revenue.
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Episode Description
We're bringing you a special episode of On With Kara Swisher! Kara sits down with Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi to dig into how applied artificial intelligence works at scale. At Uber, AI powers everything from pricing, routing, and customer service to autonomous vehicles and sidewalk robots that deliver food. It has partnered with more than 20 autonomous vehicle manufacturers, and it’s moving aggressively into robotaxis. And although it may take many decades, Khosrowshahi believes society may eventually decide humans aren’t safe enough to be trusted behind the wheel. Kara and Dara discuss what this all means for jobs, congestion, climate and Uber’s business model. This conversation was recorded live at the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg Center as part of its Discovery Series on artificial intelligence. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Every Tuesday and Friday, tech journalist Kara Swisher and NYU Professor Scott Galloway offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. They make bold predictions, pick winners and losers, and bicker and banter like no one else. After all, with great power comes great scrutiny. From New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.