A Bear Market Inside a Bull Market
A Bear Market Inside a Bull Market
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights
  • Favor AI infrastructure and compute exposure, including Intel (INTC) and AMD (AMD), but avoid overpaying as valuations may compress.
  • Consider a diversified crypto allocation around the AI-agent and tokenization theme; the speaker favors the broader crypto market over Bitcoin (BTC) alone, but gave no price targets.
  • For a bearish trade, the speaker specifically suggested shorting weak private-credit or private-equity names, including Blue Owl (OWL); no target or timing was provided.
  • Prefer large-cap technology over small caps for now, while monitoring credit spreads, jobless claims, and profit margins for signs that higher rates are causing broader stress.
Detailed Analysis

AI Infrastructure and Compute Stocks

  • The speaker is bullish on AI infrastructure and compute, arguing that the arrival of consumer AI agents will increase demand for computing capacity.
  • He said his thematic agentic-infrastructure portfolio was up 46% through Friday, compared with 10% for the Magnificent Seven over the period he discussed. These are reported past returns, not forecasts.
  • Intel (INTC) and AMD (AMD) were cited as stocks that moved alongside the consumer-agent news. The speaker expects infrastructure-related companies to benefit as agent usage expands.
  • He argued that the market may be underestimating how quickly AI agents could increase usage and revenues, while also warning that high expectations can lead to multiple compression across stocks.

Takeaways

  • The discussion favors researching companies that supply the computing infrastructure behind AI, rather than assuming every AI-related company will benefit equally.
  • The speaker’s key risk for investors is overpaying: strong demand for AI does not guarantee that a stock’s valuation will hold up.

NVIDIA (NVDA)

  • The speaker contrasted NVIDIA with the dot-com-era example of Cisco, saying NVIDIA was trading at about 15 times next year’s earnings at the time of the discussion, versus Cisco’s much higher valuation during the dot-com bubble.
  • He used this comparison to argue that current AI stocks should not automatically be treated as a bubble.

Takeaways

  • The transcript’s case is that AI valuations should be assessed company by company, rather than dismissed based on comparisons with past technology bubbles.
  • The speaker did not give a price target or a specific recommendation for NVIDIA.

Magnificent Seven (MAG7)

  • The speaker described the largest technology companies as leaders in a bull market within a broader market that also contains weaker areas. He said the MAG7 were making new highs while smaller stocks lagged.
  • He expects the major technology companies to benefit from AI agents, but also face competition from one another and from OpenAI and Anthropic.
  • In his view, that competition could push prices lower and result in multiple compression over time.

Takeaways

  • The speaker’s outlook is mixed: he sees near-term opportunities tied to AI, but does not assume today’s leading technology companies will retain their current valuations.
  • Consider the competitive threat and potential for lower margins alongside the AI-growth opportunity.

Meta Platforms (META)

  • The speaker cited Meta’s consumer AI agent, Muse, as a major development and said Meta stock rose 14% on Monday after the news.
  • He said the announcement also supported other technology stocks, including Intel and AMD, because he expects agent usage to increase demand for computing.
  • He described the rapid improvement of Meta’s AI models as evidence that competition in consumer agents is arriving quickly.

Takeaways

  • The transcript presents Meta as a potential beneficiary of consumer AI adoption, but also emphasizes that the agent market will be highly competitive.
  • The discussion gives no price target and does not establish that Muse’s early interest will translate into lasting profits.

Microsoft (MSFT), Apple (AAPL), and Amazon (AMZN)

  • The speaker expects these large technology companies to benefit from AI agents, but argues that competition could limit the durability of those benefits.
  • He said Apple’s Siri could improve as AI models advance.
  • He pointed to Amazon’s reported standoff over Muse as a sign of growing competition among technology companies.

Takeaways

  • The speaker’s view is not simply bullish on all large technology stocks: potential AI gains come with the risk of competition and valuation pressure.
  • Monitor whether AI products lead to measurable business results, rather than relying on announcements alone.

Salesforce (CRM)

  • The speaker used Salesforce as an example of a large software company under pressure from AI-related disruption. He said it was down 10% year to date and down 15% over five years at the time discussed, despite a recent rally.
  • He argued that AI competition could weigh on established software companies’ valuations.

Takeaways

  • The transcript is bearish on Salesforce relative to AI infrastructure and AI-native businesses.
  • The speaker did not make a direct short recommendation on Salesforce, but cited it as an example of the pressure he expects on established software valuations.

Visa (V) and Mastercard (MA)

  • The speaker said these payment networks could face a “knife fight” as AI agents and crypto-based payment systems develop.
  • He argued that agents may not have the brand loyalty or attachment to familiar payment methods that human consumers do.
  • He expects possible pressure on the companies’ valuation multiples, while acknowledging that the disruption is not yet fully established.

Takeaways

  • The transcript raises a long-term competitive risk to traditional payment networks from agent-based payments, stablecoins, and tokenization.
  • This is a disruption thesis, not evidence that Visa or Mastercard’s existing businesses are already being displaced.

Micron (MU)

  • The speaker said Micron had already experienced multiple compression, using it as an example of how a company can face valuation pressure even amid a broader technology bull market.

Takeaways

  • The transcript’s point is to distinguish a strong industry or technology trend from the valuation prospects of individual stocks.
  • No specific recommendation or price target for Micron was given.

Bitcoin (BTC), Ethereum (ETH), and Crypto

  • The speaker is strongly bullish on crypto, describing the sector as being near the beginning of a broader bull market tied to AI agents and tokenization.
  • He said crypto infrastructure—including Bitcoin, Ethereum, stablecoins, and tokenization—has been built over many years and may now have a new use case as agents conduct transactions.
  • He said his 46-name crypto token index was up 31% for the month discussed, compared with 6.5% for Bitcoin. He also reported that 44 of 46 names were above their 50-day moving averages.
  • He said he had moved some money out of smaller AI-related positions and into crypto, and argued that the wider crypto index was more useful to watch than Bitcoin alone.

Takeaways

  • The speaker’s thesis is that AI agents could increase demand for crypto payment and tokenization infrastructure, potentially benefiting a broader group of crypto assets and companies.
  • The reported performance and market breadth are historical observations from the episode, not guarantees of future returns.
  • The transcript does not provide individual price targets or identify all 46 index constituents.

Coinbase (COIN)

  • The speaker said users can trade Coinbase through Meta’s Muse, presenting this as an example of crypto trading rails becoming accessible through AI agents.
  • He cited this as evidence that AI agents and crypto infrastructure are beginning to connect.

Takeaways

  • The potential opportunity described is increased access to crypto trading through agent interfaces.
  • The transcript does not quantify potential revenue or give a specific stock recommendation for Coinbase.

Robinhood Markets (HOOD)

  • The speaker highlighted Robinhood’s work on tokenization and Robinhood Chain, and recommended listening to CEO Vlad Tenev’s discussion of the topic.
  • He said tokenization could change how financial assets are accessed and traded.

Takeaways

  • The transcript presents Robinhood as a company to watch for exposure to tokenized assets and crypto-related financial infrastructure.
  • The speaker did not give a price target or quantify the business impact.

BlackRock (BLK) and Tokenized Funds

  • The speaker cited BlackRock’s paper on a “machine-native economy” and its move to put model portfolios on-chain, with access through crypto wallets for non-U.S. investors.
  • He views this as evidence that tokenization is moving from a concept toward practical financial applications.

Takeaways

  • The investment theme is the possible expansion of traditional financial products onto blockchain-based systems.
  • The transcript does not estimate how much revenue or assets this could bring to BlackRock.

Stripe

  • The speaker highlighted Stripe in the context of payment protocols designed for AI agents and machine-to-machine transactions.
  • He argued that agents may use payment methods differently from people, potentially bypassing familiar card, subscription, or brand-based arrangements.

Takeaways

  • Stripe is presented as a private-company example of the emerging AI payments and agent-commerce theme.
  • The transcript does not provide a valuation, investment terms, or a specific recommendation.

Housing and Rate-Sensitive Companies

  • The speaker said housing, autos, restaurants, and other rate-sensitive parts of the economy were trading as though they were in a bear market, while large technology stocks were stronger.
  • He explicitly suggested going short housing if an investor believes higher rates will cause further damage.
  • He also argued that lower construction costs, potentially enabled by AI, could eventually put downward pressure on home prices, with that process beginning in roughly five years.

Takeaways

  • The speaker’s view is bearish on housing-related exposure in the nearer term, while suggesting that AI could eventually lower building costs.
  • The five-year timing is the speaker’s stated expectation, not a guaranteed forecast.

Private Credit, Private Equity, and Blue Owl (OWL)

  • The speaker suggested shorting private-credit and private-equity names that were already showing weakness.
  • He specifically mentioned Blue Owl (OWL), saying it had fallen again and was approaching a low.
  • He framed these areas as vulnerable to higher rates and financial conditions.

Takeaways

  • This was one of the transcript’s clearest bearish trade suggestions: the speaker said investors concerned about rates could focus on weak private-credit and private-equity names, including Blue Owl.
  • The transcript does not provide a price target or specify position size.

Eli Lilly (LLY) and AI-Enabled Drug Discovery

  • The speaker described healthcare and pharmaceuticals as potential beneficiaries of AI-driven research and drug discovery.
  • He mentioned Insilico Medicine and its relationship with Eli Lilly, and cited research suggesting AI could accelerate drug-discovery timelines.
  • He argued that AI’s scientific and research applications may prove more significant than consumer-facing revenue opportunities in some cases.

Takeaways

  • The discussion identifies AI-enabled drug discovery as a longer-term investment theme to research, rather than making a specific recommendation on Eli Lilly.
  • The transcript does not provide a target price, timeline for a product, or an estimate of financial returns.

Russell 2000 (IWM) and Nasdaq-100 (QQQ)

  • The speaker said IWM relative to QQQ had made new lows going back to the iPhone’s introduction, describing this as evidence of a persistent gap between smaller companies and large technology firms.
  • He argued that smaller companies are more exposed to debt costs and higher rates, while the largest technology firms are less rate-sensitive.
  • He said the Russell 2000 could remain under pressure unless oil prices fall, but did not characterize the chart as a market collapse.

Takeaways

  • The speaker’s market view favors large technology and AI-linked companies over small-cap stocks in the current environment.
  • Investors considering small-cap exposure should note the transcript’s stated concerns about rates and access to financing.

S&P 500

  • The speaker remained broadly constructive on the S&P 500, citing rising earnings, profit margins, and a positive year-over-year trend.
  • He said he would change his view if the S&P 500’s year-over-year performance turned negative.
  • He also argued that weak market breadth does not necessarily mean the entire market is in trouble when a small number of very large companies dominate performance.

Takeaways

  • The transcript supports a selective, rather than uniformly bearish, market stance: the speaker sees weakness in some sectors alongside strength in the broader index and leading technology stocks.
  • His stated conditions for concern include deterioration in earnings-related indicators and signs of credit stress.

Credit Markets and Interest Rates

  • The speaker argued that higher rates alone do not prove a crisis is coming. He pointed to credit spreads, jobless claims, and profit margins as indicators to watch.
  • He said high-yield credit spreads had moved only modestly, and suggested that a meaningful widening in credit spreads would be a more concerning signal.
  • He noted that bond-market volatility had risen and that the dollar was strengthening, but said broader credit deterioration was not yet clear.

Takeaways

  • In the speaker’s framework, watch for widening credit spreads, rising jobless claims, and deteriorating profit margins as signs that higher rates are causing broader economic stress.
  • He did not provide a specific bond trade or yield forecast.
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Video Description
For more information on subscribing visit ai.22vresearch.com or visser-labs.com Contact Mark Whaling mwhaling@22vresearch.com In this week's video, I walk through the "time mismatch" theme I presented to Freedom Tech in DC this week. There are two economies running at two speeds. In "human time," housing, autos, retail, restaurants and the Russell 2000 are underpressure as rates move higher. On the "ghost rails," AI agents, compute infrastructure and tokenization are accelerating. The speed of intelligence is changing, and the speed of money has to catch up. The rates scare isn't showing up in the data. The LEI just turned positive with no recession. S&P earnings are up 17% year over year, and credit spreads aren't widening. Jobless claims aren't budging, profit margins are still rising and money market funds keep filling. Meanwhile, only 2.2% of people aged 55 to 64, the bracket most macro experts on podcasts fall into, use AI. The historical belief of the importance of rates vs the lack of belief of the acceleration of AI represent the time mismatch. The most important catalyst this week for the market was the consumer agent. Meta's Muse launch drove the stock up 14% on Monday, and the model fire hose is wide open. Multiple compression is the bear market: my agentic infrastructure portfolio is up 46%, against 10% for the Mag 7 and a 10% decline for Salesforce year to date. IWM relative to QQQ made new lows on September 24th. The trade is to be long speed and short friction. Crypto sits at a Peter Lynch style inflection: Breadth is accelerating with 44 of the 46 names in my tokenized index above their 50-day moving average. Timestamps • (00:00–02:24) Intro: I recap presenting to Freedom Tech in DC and the Bitcoin community I met there. Every week brings a new fear, and this week it's rates. • (02:24–06:12) Time Mismatch: Investors can think linearly or exponentially, and backtests built on a linear world no longer apply. Alvin Toffler's Future Shock explains why so many investors are angry at AI and call it a bubble. • (06:12–09:49) Rates and Age: The loudest voices calling for depression are mostly over 55. Tokenization and AI didn't exist in the decades those rate backtests were built on. • (09:49–12:37) The Facts: The LEI turned positive with no recession, and S&P earnings are up 17% year over year. Credit spreads, jobless claims, profit margins and money market flows show no sign of rate stress. • (12:37–14:40) A Whole New Mind: Daniel Pink's book predicted a world that would no longer belong to mathematicians. Only 2.2% of people aged 55 to 64 use AI, which makes it hard for them to read today's economy. • (14:40–19:16) The Consumer Agent Arrives: Meta's Muse launch sent the stock up 14% on Monday, with partners including PayPal, Expedia, Shopify and Instacart. Models are now contributing to their own improvement, and new releases this week included Opus 5.5 and GPT-6. • (19:16–24:00) Bear Market Inside a Bull: My agentic infrastructure portfolio is up 46%, while the Mag 7 are up 10% and Salesforce is down 10% year to date. Competition from AI and tokenization will compress multiples across big tech and software. • (24:00–31:23) Short Friction: With multiples compressing, Nvidia trades at 15 times next year's earnings and IWM relative to QQQ just made new lows. Visa, Mastercard and Salesforce face pressure as agents take over consumer decisions. • (31:23–34:35) Charts: The S&P is consolidating near all-time highs, and the main bear watchpoint is whether high-yield spreads widen. Consumer agents are a new catalyst for the infrastructure trade as token usage rises. • (34:35–44:05) Research Watch: Blackstone's Jon Gray shows AI payoffs already reaching margins, and Noam Brown explains why the Hugging Face incident came from underestimating AI. Claude's discovery of a CRISPR-like enzyme system points to healthcare and drug discovery as a major agentic opportunity. • (44:05–48:48) Tokenization: Vlad Tenev argues tokenization will take over the financial system, and BlackRock is taking model portfolios on chain via Ondo Finance. Entrepreneurs using AI don't need capital, so rates don't hurt them. • (48:48–57:10) Crypto's App Store Moment: My 46-name tokenized index is up 31% this month, and 96% of its names are above their 50-day moving average. Ali Yahya and a16z explain why AI agents, with no attachment to Visa or brands, are crypto's major new catalyst.
About Jordi Visser
Jordi Visser

Jordi Visser

By @jordivisserlabs

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