135. 和自然选择创始人Tristan聊,Elys、赛博分身、灵魂、Context的获取与流动和AI社交网络
135. 和自然选择创始人Tristan聊,Elys、赛博分身、灵魂、Context的获取与流动和AI社交网络
Podcast1 hr 52 min
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Investors should prioritize exposure to OpenAI and Meta, as their massive data moats position them to dominate the transition from AI "tools" to "personal agents" that act as digital proxies. Look for opportunities in the emerging AI-native social networking sector, which is disrupting a 15-year period of stagnation by using "context-driven" models to automate social friction and networking. High-conviction value lies in major IP holders like Disney and Nintendo, who can leverage deep character lore to create high-margin, interactive "digital souls" for fans. Monitor the Shenzhen tech hub for early-stage startups like Natural Selection, which are utilizing local AI talent to build "cyber-doppelgangers" that manage personal branding and information filtering. Be cautious of "pixel-level" copycats and prioritize companies whose competitive advantage is built on proprietary user data and "context flow" rather than just interface design.

Detailed Analysis

Natural Selection (Founder: Tristan)

Natural Selection is an AI startup based in Shenzhen, focusing on the intersection of AI, social networking, and "digital souls." • The company has developed two primary products: EVE and Elyse. • EVE was an earlier iteration focused on virtual companionship, while Elyse is positioned as a next-generation AI social network. • The founder's philosophy centers on "Context" — the idea that AI can now understand hundreds of thousands of tokens of personal history to create a "cyber-doppelganger" or "digital twin" that can interact with others on your behalf.

Takeaways

Product Paradigm Shift: The company is moving away from "single-key" AI products (one user talking to one AI) toward a network where AI nodes (representing real people) interact with each other based on deep personal context. • Shenzhen as a Hub: The founder highlights Shenzhen as a strategic location for AI startups due to the high concentration of talent from traditional AI firms (like SenseTime) and gaming companies. • The "Everything App" Ambition: The goal is to move beyond simple dating or chat apps to create an "everything app" where AI manages social connections, information filtering, and personal branding.


Elyse (AI Social Network)

Elyse is described as an AI-native social network where users create a digital version of themselves. • Core Mechanism: It uses "Context Flow." Instead of static tags (like traditional social media), it uses Large Language Models (LLMs) to ingest a user's thoughts, writing, and history to represent them accurately in a digital space. • Onboarding Process: The product requires a "double-load" process where the AI learns about the user through interaction, and the user confirms or denies the AI's interpretations to build a "memory." • User Experience: It aims to solve the "high cost" of social interaction. Your AI "twin" can handle initial conversations or filter connections, only bringing the most relevant/real interactions to the human user.

Takeaways

Investment Theme: Watch for the transition from "Content-driven" social media (TikTok/Instagram) to "Context-driven" social media. • Efficiency in Socializing: The actionable insight is the reduction of social friction. For the general public, this represents a shift where AI handles the "boring" parts of networking, leaving humans to focus on high-value, real-world connections. • Privacy vs. Utility: A significant risk factor mentioned is the "double-edged sword" of context; for the AI to be useful, it needs deep access to personal data, which may be a barrier for some users.


OpenAI / ChatGPT (GPT-4)

• The transcript identifies GPT-4 as the "Aha!" moment for the founder, proving that AI could finally handle the complexity required to simulate a human "soul" or personality. • ChatGPT is viewed as the primary competitor or "final answer" in the space because of its massive user base and its potential to integrate personal context into a "Personal Agent."

Takeaways

Platform Dominance: The founder believes OpenAI (specifically ChatGPT) and Meta have the strongest advantages in the AI race due to their existing control over user context and data. • The "Personal Agent" Trend: There is a strong bullish sentiment toward AI moving from a "tool" (like a calculator) to a "proxy" (an agent that acts for you).


Intellectual Property & Content Creators (Disney, Nintendo)

• The discussion touches on how AI will impact major IP holders like Disney and Nintendo. • AI allows these companies to turn their static IPs into "authentic, interactive content" that can provide personalized value to fans.

Takeaways

IP Monetization: For investors, the insight is that companies with deep "Context" (libraries of stories, characters, and lore) are best positioned to thrive in an AI world. • Legal Risks: The transcript notes a lack of clear laws or treaties regarding how these "digital souls" or AI-generated versions of IP should be regulated.


Investment Themes: AI Social & Digital Identity

The "Cyber-Doppelganger": A recurring theme is the creation of digital twins. This isn't just for fun; it's seen as a way to manage "social entropy" and "information overload." • Tokenization of Audio/Social: The founder suggests that in the AI era, audio and social interactions are being "tokenized," making them easier for models to recommend and process than traditional video. • Shift in Human Nature: The "basic work" of social interaction (small talk, scheduling, initial vetting) is being offloaded to machines, allowing humans to focus on the "structure of relationships."

Takeaways

Bullish Sector: AI-native social networking is identified as a "new paradigm" that hasn't seen a major shakeup in 15 years (since the rise of Facebook/WeChat). • Risk Factor: "Pixel-level" copying is a major threat. The founder mentions that competitors are already copying their product designs exactly, suggesting that the "moat" for these companies must be the data/context, not just the interface. • Timeline: The founder expects significant evolution in these systems over the next few months, indicating a very fast-moving investment and development cycle.

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Episode Description
春节节后,一款AI native产品Elys引起了小圈层人的关注,这是一款还在测试,尚且没有全面上线的AI社交产品。某种程度上,它展现了AI时代社交产品的一些雏形:打造赛博分身、分身替你去主动社交、为你转化成真实世界的连接。 今天我邀请了自然选择创始人Tristan(张筱帆)来聊聊。他们公司目前有两款产品,分别是AI游戏Eve和AI社交Elys,它们背后的精神内核都是:“人类太孤独了。” 接下来,就是我对Tristan的访谈。 OUTLINE: 02:00 做过陌生人社交、恋爱游戏 10:53 毫不犹豫地成立了新公司自然选择,毫不犹豫地做Eve 13:23 陪你一起面对世界的Agent 16:23 Elys想法雏形,我终于想清楚了AI社交网络应该怎么做:Context的流动 20:32 最大的范式转移:传统互联网是低维标签化信息,新的互联网第一次有了Context 23:05 Elys产品设计的关键、难点、双重冷却 36:56 接下来AI时代唯一重要的事情是,构建主体性 45:17 交出Context与用户隐私的博弈 48:20 Elys是不是AI版的Tinder? 54:35 中国拥有最多Context的公司是谁?(微信?小红书?即刻?) 56:20 定义什么是好的Context? 01:00:02 AI时代社交 vs 互联网时代社交 01:15:15 未来的社交网络 01:21:48 ChatGPT可能拓展的社交网络 01:28:10 和模型公司的竞争(“我觉得完全不用自己训模型”) 01:33:42 北极星指标:真人的连接率 01:34:05 你担心Elys是昙花一现的产品吗? 01:41:15 我们现在处于终极忙碌“前进4”状态 01:46:02 做AI产品和做互联网产品的本质区别(Proactive!) 01:49:16 人类太孤独了 *对了,我们提到的小实验会在Elys上线时来做:) LINKS: 我们的播客在小宇宙、Apple Podcast、Spotify等全音频平台播出; 我们的视频播客在Bilibili、小红书、视频号、抖音等全视频平台播出; 如果你想服用文字版,请搜索我们工作室的公众号:语言即世界language is world。 DISCLAIMER: 本内容不作为投资建议。 CONTACT: xiaojunzhang@lisw.ai Jump into the new world-and explore with us!😉
About 张小珺Jùn|商业访谈录
张小珺Jùn|商业访谈录

张小珺Jùn|商业访谈录

By 张小珺

努力做中国最优质的科技、商业访谈。 张小珺:财经作者,写作中国商业深度报道,范围包括AI、科技巨头、风险投资和知名人物,也是播客《张小珺Jùn | 商业访谈录》制作人。 如果我的访谈能陪你走一段孤独的未知的路,也许有一天可以离目的地更近一点,我就很温暖:)