Gavin Baker - Watts and Wafers - [Invest Like the Best, EP.473]
Gavin Baker - Watts and Wafers - [Invest Like the Best, EP.473]
Podcast1 hr 16 min
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Investors should maintain core exposure to NVIDIA (NVDA), which remains historically undervalued relative to its growth as the primary "seller of shortage" in the AI supply chain. Taiwan Semiconductor (TSM) acts as the critical gatekeeper for the industry; as long as they maintain high utilization without overbuilding capacity, the structural floor for AI valuations remains intact. High Bandwidth Memory (HBM) providers like Micron (MU) and SK Hynix offer a compelling valuation play as memory shifts from a commodity to a high-value AI component with extended hardware lifecycles. For software exposure, prioritize companies in the "token path" like Databricks or Snowflake, and favor Anthropic over competitors due to its superior capital efficiency and massive revenue scaling. Finally, monitor the U.S. energy sector and Natural Gas (NG1), as domestic power advantages provide a significant competitive moat for American AI data centers through 2027.

Detailed Analysis

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC)

TSMC is described as the single most important variable in the AI trade. Their capacity decisions act as the "governor" of the entire market. • The "Silicon Shield" and the legacy of Morris Chang remain central to the company's culture and global importance. • TSMC does business with NVIDIA based on handshakes and fairness rather than rigid contracts, highlighting a unique, high-trust strategic partnership. • There is a fundamental shortage of wafers that only TSMC can currently address at the leading edge.

Takeaways

Monitor Capacity Decisions: If TSMC expands capacity too slowly, it sustains the shortage and prevents a bubble; if they expand too fast, it could lead to an overbuild. • The "Goldilocks Zone": The ideal investment environment is one where TSMC expands just enough to keep Intel and Samsung from gaining more than 30% market share while maintaining high utilization. • Bubble Indicator: Watch for Intel or Samsung to "break discipline" and flood the market with capacity; until then, TSMC's supply constraint is a structural floor for AI valuations.


NVIDIA (NVDA)

NVIDIA is currently the "seller of shortage." Despite its massive run, it was noted that in early April, the stock was essentially as cheap as it has been relative to the market in 10-12 years on a forward-looking basis. • The company has a massive advantage because every player in the supply chain shows Jensen Huang their technology first. • NVIDIA is expected to move into any niche that a startup proves is profitable (the "1% market share" rule).

Takeaways

Valuation Dissonance: The speaker suggests NVIDIA’s valuation is hard to square with other "AI plays" like GE Vernova, implying NVIDIA may still be undervalued relative to the massive share loss the market is pricing into its future. • Software/Model Potential: While NVIDIA doesn't want to compete with its customers (OpenAI/Anthropic), it likely has the capability to produce a frontier-level model if it chose to.


Anthropic & OpenAI

Anthropic is highlighted for its extreme capital efficiency, reportedly burning 80% less than OpenAI to reach a similar revenue scale. • Anthropic added $11 billion in ARR in a single month, a feat described as unprecedented in the history of capitalism. • Both companies are shifting toward usage-based pricing (pay-by-the-drink) rather than "all-you-can-eat" subscriptions, which is highly bullish for revenue growth.

Takeaways

Frontier Dominance: Economic value is currently accruing almost exclusively to "Frontier" models. Investors should be wary of "middle-tier" models that are being commoditized. • Unconstrained Revenue: If these companies had unlimited compute, their revenue would likely be 2x-4x higher than current levels. • Efficiency Matters: Anthropic’s lower cost-per-token gives it a structural advantage in Return on Invested Capital (ROIC) compared to OpenAI.


SpaceX & Tesla (TSLA) - The "TerraFab"

• A joint venture (referred to as the TerraFab) aims to build the world's largest semiconductor fab in America. • The project leverages Intel’s institutional knowledge but applies Elon Musk’s hardware engineering speed (e.g., building data centers in 122 days vs. the industry standard of 3 years). • SpaceX is also pioneering "Orbital Compute"—placing server racks in space to solve the "Watts" (power) constraint on Earth.

Takeaways

Manufacturing Renaissance: Elon Musk is viewed as a "living deity" in Asian manufacturing hubs, allowing him to recruit top-tier engineering talent from Taiwan, Korea, and Japan to Texas. • Vertical Integration: By building their own chips and power solutions, these entities are bypasssing the traditional bottlenecks of the "Watts and Wafers" shortage.


The "Watts" (Energy) Sector

• The near-term power shortage is expected to ease around 2027–2028 as new energy sources come online. • Key constraints have shifted from just "energy and chips" to "zoning and approvals." • Natural Gas (NG1) is a massive relative advantage for US-based AI companies compared to Europe and Asia.

Takeaways

Terrestrial vs. Orbital: While "Orbital Compute" (racks in space) is the long-term solution for inference, terrestrial data centers will remain valuable for training for the foreseeable future. • Industrial Engineering: Companies making large turbines and power equipment are seeing massive capacity ramps, but investors should watch for these ramps hitting just as orbital solutions become viable.


Memory & Storage (MU, Samsung, SK Hynix)

• There is a massive valuation gap between semi-cap equipment (trading at ~40x) and DRAM companies (trading at mid-single digits). • HBM (High Bandwidth Memory) is fundamentally changing the business model of memory from a pure commodity to a high-value AI component.

Takeaways

Bullish Sentiment: The speaker notes a "diversity breakdown" where almost all sophisticated investors are now bullish on DRAM. • Useful Life: The "disaggregation of pre-fill and inference" means older GPUs (and the memory attached to them) will have 10-15 year lives rather than 2-4 years, which is highly positive for the credit and asset value of memory-heavy hardware.


Investment Themes & Risks

The "Token Path"

• To be a successful software/AI company, you must be in the "token path" (e.g., Databricks, Snowflake). Companies outside this path are seeing value destroyed by AI.

Richard Sutton’s "Bitter Lesson"

• The theory that more compute and data always beat human algorithmic ingenuity. The biggest risk to the AI trade is a violation of this lesson—if someone develops a way to get "Frontier" intelligence with 90% less compute.

Geopolitical Advantage

• The closure of the Strait of Hormuz and rising energy prices abroad actually improve America's relative manufacturing competitiveness because of domestic natural gas.

Risk Factors

Cybersecurity: The rise of "deepfake" social engineering requires firms and families to use "safe words" for financial transactions. • Political Violence: As AI becomes more political, the physical safety of AI leaders is a growing concern.

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Episode Description
My guest today is Gavin Baker, founding partner and CIO of Atreides Management, and this is our sixth conversation. The central theme is watts and wafers, the two physical constraints that in Gavin's view will dictate the next phase of AI. On power, he thinks the near-term shortage starts to ease in 2027 and 2028 as new sources of energy come online, and that orbital compute solves it in the long term. On wafers, he explains what is different this time from the dotcom bubble and why TSMC’s capacity decisions may be the single most important variable to watch. We also discuss Elon’s Terrafab, the disaggregation of GPUs, the role of new chip companies, and whether the economic value of AI will keep accruing to frontier models. For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.  ----- Become a Colossus member to get our quarterly print magazine and private audio experience, including exclusive profiles and early access to select episodes. Subscribe at ⁠colossus.com/subscribe⁠. ----- ⁠Ramp’s⁠ mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ramp.com/invest⁠⁠ to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus. ----- Trusted by thousands of businesses, ⁠Vanta⁠ continuously monitors your security posture and streamlines audits so you can win enterprise deals and build customer trust without the traditional overhead. Invest Like the Best listeners get a special offer of $1,000 off Vanta when you go to ⁠vanta.com/invest⁠.  ----- WorkOS⁠ is the infrastructure B2B and AI-native companies use to sell to enterprise. It covers everything enterprise security requires: SSO, SCIM, RBAC, Audit Logs, AI governance, and more. Trusted by 2,000+ fast-growing companies, including OpenAI, Anthropic, Cursor, and Vercel. ----- Rogo is the AI platform for finance. They're building agents for Wall Street that are trained to understand how bankers and investors actually do work: from diligence and modeling, to turning analysis into deliverables. To learn more, visit rogo.ai/invest. ----- ⁠Ridgeline⁠ has built a complete, real-time, modern operating system for investment managers. It handles trading, portfolio management, compliance, customer reporting, and much more through an all-in-one real-time cloud platform. Visit⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ridgelineapps.com⁠. ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). Timestamps: (00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like The Best (00:02:29) Gavin Baker Intro (00:03:32) Anthropic's Record ARR Growth (00:11:49) Should OpenAI and Anthropic Raise at a Much Higher Valuation? (00:13:23) How Elon Preserves Investor Trust (00:14:00) Watts & Wafers (00:15:45) Data Centers in Space Explained (00:20:51) Orbital Compute’s Impact on Terrestrial Data Centers (00:26:24) TSMC Supply Discipline & Bubble Risk (00:30:50) Demand for Frontier Tokens & The Bitter Lesson (00:35:33) Continual Learning & Memory (00:40:01) New Chip Companies & Startups (00:42:49) Prefill vs. Decode Disaggregation (00:48:40) AI-Native Founders: Different & Hard (00:51:27) Token Path & Application Layer (00:56:13) How Gavin Uses AI in Atreides (01:00:06) Signs of a Diversity Breakdown (01:05:42) Google, Meta, Amazon, Microsoft (01:11:42) Broader Knock-On Effects of AI
About Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy

By Colossus | Investing & Business Podcasts

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