The Art of Trading and Galaxy’s Next Chapter | Mike Novogratz
The Art of Trading and Galaxy’s Next Chapter | Mike Novogratz
221 days agoEmpireBlockworks
Podcast1 hr 13 min
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Consider holding a core portfolio of major cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin (BTC), Ethereum (ETH), and Solana (SOL), as upcoming U.S. regulatory clarity could drive significant institutional adoption. Galaxy Digital (GLXY.TO) is presented as a unique opportunity, combining a high-growth crypto business with a stable AI data center operation that provides a strong price floor. To participate in the massive AI spending trend, remain invested in key players but use a stop-loss to manage risk in this expensive market. As a contrarian diversification play, look into undervalued Chinese equities like Alibaba (BABA), which may benefit from government stimulus. For a more speculative DeFi investment, Hyperliquid (HYPE) is highlighted as a high-conviction project with a strong team, despite facing intense competition.

Detailed Analysis

Galaxy Digital (GLXY.TO)

  • Mike Novogratz, the CEO, states that Galaxy is a very large percentage of his personal net worth, around 70-80%, indicating extremely high personal conviction in the company.
  • The company is structured around two primary businesses: a crypto business and a rapidly growing data center business.
  • Data Center Business:
    • This business is considered a major success, described as stumbling into "gold."
    • They have a significant contract with CoreWeave, an AI infrastructure company, which is expected to generate $20 billion+ in rent over 15 years from an 800-megawatt facility.
    • Novogratz believes this business provides a "much higher floor to the share price" than before, acting almost like a bond with predictable cash flows.
    • The company has plans to expand significantly, with a 2.7 gigawatt application in the pipeline, which could make it one of the largest data centers in the world.
  • Crypto Business:
    • The company is focusing heavily on tokenized credit, with Novogratz stating, "If we're not in tokenized credit in 12 months, someone should kick me in the jaw."
    • They are also finding success in asset management for Decentralized Autonomous Trusts (DATs), managing assets for projects like Ford and others, which has turned their asset management division profitable.
    • The Galaxy brand is seen as a key asset, helping them win major deals like a $9 billion Bitcoin sale due to trust.
  • Potential to Split the Company:
    • Novogratz gives a 50/50 chance that Galaxy might split the data center and crypto businesses in the future (e.g., in 18 months).
    • The reason would be if the market doesn't properly value the combined company (a "sum-of-the-parts discount"). The two businesses have few synergies besides sharing capital.
  • Tokenized Equity:
    • Galaxy has tokenized a portion of its own stock. While the initial amount is small ($1.5-2 million), it's a pioneering move to create a legal, on-chain version of their equity.
    • The long-term vision is for a significant amount of the stock's liquidity to eventually trade on-chain, increasing access for a broader base of investors.

Takeaways

  • Galaxy presents a unique investment profile, combining a high-growth, volatile crypto business with a more stable, large-scale AI infrastructure play (the data center).
  • The data center business, with its long-term contract with CoreWeave, provides a significant and potentially undervalued source of stable cash flow that could cushion the company during crypto bear markets.
  • Investors should watch for news regarding the expansion of the data center business and the potential for a future spin-off, which could unlock value for shareholders.
  • The company's strategic push into tokenized credit positions it to capitalize on a major emerging trend in finance.

AI Investment Theme

  • The discussion highlights an unprecedented level of capital expenditure (CapEx) in the AI sector. Novogratz notes that a single supercomputer project could involve over $100 billion in CapEx, a scale only comparable to the entire U.S. interstate highway system.
  • This massive spending from companies like NVIDIA, OpenAI, Oracle, and CoreWeave suggests that very smart people are betting on a fundamental shift in how the world operates.
  • The market is described as "frothy," with investor Dave Tepper quoted as saying it's a "pain in the ass because everything's expensive." The sentiment is that you are long expensive assets, hoping they go even higher.
  • Galaxy's data center business is a direct beneficiary of this theme, as AI requires immense power and computing infrastructure.

Takeaways

  • The AI trend is backed by historic levels of investment, suggesting it is a durable, long-term theme.
  • Investors can gain exposure through direct investments in key players (NVIDIA, etc.) or through picks-and-shovels companies that provide the necessary infrastructure, like data centers.
  • The high valuations in the sector are a key risk. The advice given is to "keep dancing until the music stops" but to have a stop-loss on positions to manage risk, as things have moved a long way and could correct.

Hyperliquid (HYPE)

  • Novogratz is personally invested and holds "a lot of Hyperliquid."
  • He describes the founders, Jeff and Sophia, as "sharp as hell and they're stone cold serious," believing they are in it for the long haul to build something spectacular, not for a quick profit.
  • Despite a recent 20% drop in a single day, Novogratz is not selling, expressing confidence in the long-term vision of the team.
  • A major risk factor mentioned is the intense competition. The transcript notes that in the same week, both CZ (founder of Binance) and Justin Sun launched competitors, highlighting the challenge of maintaining a moat.
  • Regulatory uncertainty, specifically around KYC (Know Your Customer) requirements for decentralized platforms, is also a significant question for the project's future.

Takeaways

  • Hyperliquid is viewed as a high-potential project in the decentralized finance (DeFi) space, led by a strong, long-term-oriented team.
  • Investors should be aware of the significant competitive risks from established crypto giants and the unresolved regulatory questions surrounding KYC compliance for decentralized exchanges.
  • Novogratz's decision to hold through volatility signals a strong conviction in the project's fundamental value over short-term price movements.

Core Crypto Holdings (BTC, ETH, SOL)

  • Novogratz confirms he is long Bitcoin (BTC), Ethereum (ETH), and Solana (SOL).
  • The discussion touches on whether the traditional 4-year crypto cycle is still intact.
  • A key difference this cycle is the major regulatory progress in the U.S. (e.g., the "Genius Act" and a potential market structure bill). This is expected to force large institutions like Apple and others into the crypto ecosystem, particularly with stablecoins.
  • This institutional adoption and regulatory clarity could "change the cycle" and lead to a much bigger shift of financial infrastructure onto blockchains than seen in previous cycles.

Takeaways

  • Holding a core portfolio of major cryptocurrencies like BTC, ETH, and SOL remains a key strategy for Novogratz.
  • The bull case is no longer just about a cyclical market but is now supported by a potentially massive, one-time shift driven by U.S. regulatory clarity and the forced entry of major technology and financial companies into the space.

Chinese Equities

  • Novogratz mentions he is long Chinese equities as a portfolio diversifier.
  • He notes that these stocks are still "very, very cheap" relative to U.S. tech stocks.
  • A key bullish factor is that the Chinese government is actively fighting deflation and trying to stimulate its economy ("inflating"), which is generally positive for asset prices.
  • He references famed investor David Tepper's successful calls on Chinese stocks like Alibaba (BABA) as validation for the thesis.

Takeaways

  • For investors looking for diversification away from expensive U.S. markets, Chinese equities offer a potentially undervalued, contrarian opportunity.
  • The investment thesis is based on low relative valuations and supportive government policy aimed at stimulating the economy.

Community-Driven Stocks

  • A major theme is the rising importance of community in valuing public companies, a trend that migrated from crypto to equity markets.
  • Palantir (PLTR) is highlighted as a company that "trades at an insane multiple" partly because of its strong community, which the company actively cultivates.
  • Tesla (TSLA) with Elon Musk and MicroStrategy (MSTR) with its Bitcoin-focused community are also cited as prime examples where a loyal following contributes significantly to the stock's valuation, making it trade like a "meme stock."

Takeaways

  • When evaluating certain high-growth stocks, traditional metrics like discounted cash flow may not be enough. The strength and engagement of a company's community can be a powerful, if intangible, driver of valuation.
  • Investors should consider the "mimetic" or narrative value of a stock, as a strong community can lead to sustained premium valuations.
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Episode Description
This week Mike Novogratz joins the show to reflect on his path from a successful trading career to building and running Galaxy. We deep dive into the state of markets, what defines the most successful macro traders, Galaxy's AI data centre opportunity, running a public company & more. Enjoy! -- Follow Mike: https://x.com/novogratz Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod -- Join the Empire Telegram: https://t.me/+CaCYvTOB4Eg1OWJh Start your day with crypto news, analysis and data from David Canellis. Subscribe to the Empire newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/empire?utm_source=podcasts -- Crypto-native institutions and developers demand institutional-grade infrastructure with regulatory clarity and full asset control. Blockdaemon's Earn Stack is a non-custodial platform combining high-performance staking rewards and seamless DeFi integration with no intermediate smart contract or vaults. Programmatically access leading Ethereum & Solana staking rewards, plus DeFi opportunities across lending protocols, DEXs, and AMMs. Book a Demo! -- peaq, the Machine Economy Computer, proudly sponsors the Empire podcast. peaq is home to 60+ apps across 20+ industries and millions of devices, machines, and onchain robots. It powers the world’s first tokenized robo-farm, launching soon in Hong Kong, and has launched the Machine Economy Free Zone in Dubai as a Web3 x Robotics x AI innovation hub. For more about peaq, check out www.peaq.xyz -- Mantle is pioneering ""Blockchain for Banking"" as a revolutionary new category that sits at the intersection of TradFi and web3. Key elements for Mantle as the ""Blockchain for Banking"": - Transactions posted to the blockchain - Compatibility with TradFi rails - Integrated DeFi features Mantle Network, the access layer — transforms Mantle Network into a purpose-built vertical platform — the blockchain for banking — that enables financial services on-chain. Mantle leads the establishment of Blockchain for Banking as the next frontier. Follow Mantle on X (@Mantle_Official) for the latest updates on Mantle as the 'Blockchain for Banking'. -- GEODNET is the world’s largest RTK network, delivering real-time, centimeter-level precision for drones, robots, farmers, and first responders. Recognized by the U.S. Congress, this blockchain-powered network supports mission-critical applications across a wide range of industries. Discover how GEODNET is changing the world: [https://geodnet.com] -- Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (06:32) Mike's Outlook For Markets in 2025 (14:53) Are Markets Frothy, AI Capex & The Minsky Moment (24:26) Ads (Blockdaemon, Peaq) (25:36) What Will The Next Four Years For Crypto Look Like? (30:44) What Makes The Most Successful Macro Traders? (40:25) Ads (Blockdaemon, Peaq) (41:35) Hyperliquid (44:19) The AI Data Centre Buildout (54:34) Ads (Mantle, Geodnet) (55:59) Galaxy's Crypto Business (59:06) Tokenizing Galaxy's Stock (01:03:14) Running A Public Company & The IPO Window (01:07:03) Final Thoughts -- Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
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