Phantom CEO: The Next Chapter For Phantom | Brandon Millman & Donnie Dinch
Phantom CEO: The Next Chapter For Phantom | Brandon Millman & Donnie Dinch
180 days agoEmpireBlockworks
Podcast1 hr 25 min
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Solana (SOL) is presented as the definitive winner for high-speed consumer applications, making it a high-conviction long-term investment. The upcoming integration of prediction markets into the Phantom wallet signals a major growth opportunity for leaders in the space like Polymarket and Kalshi. Phantom's new CASH stablecoin, built with Stripe, validates the successful revenue diversification model used by Coinbase (COIN) through its USDC partnership. The choice to integrate perpetual futures via Hyperliquid highlights that protocol's potential for significant user growth from a new mobile audience. Overall, the insights suggest prioritizing exposure to the Solana ecosystem over Ethereum (ETH) for consumer-focused growth themes.

Detailed Analysis

Solana (SOL)

  • Phantom's initial success is described as a "masterstroke" for making a "really good bet on Solana."
  • The wallet was built to highlight the speed and cheapness of the Solana network, which helped the ecosystem gain traction.
  • The speakers believe the combination of a fast, cheap chain like Solana and a high-quality wallet experience like Phantom was a key factor in the ecosystem's growth.
  • While Phantom is expanding to other chains, its historical association is with Solana.
  • The speakers believe Solana has clearly "won" the race to be the primary fast and cheap general-purpose blockchain, and it's unlikely another chain will compete with it on those specific features.
  • One speaker positions Solana as the leading "trading consumer chain" in a future where blockchains become more specialized.

Takeaways

  • The success of Phantom is deeply intertwined with the growth of the Solana ecosystem. This suggests a strong symbiotic relationship.
  • Investors bullish on Phantom's continued user growth could see this as a positive indicator for Solana, as Phantom drives significant on-chain activity.
  • The view that Solana has solidified its position as the top high-performance blockchain for consumer and trading applications is a strong bullish signal for the network's long-term relevance.

Stablecoins (USDC, CASH)

  • Stablecoins are described as the "atomic unit" and the "big unlock" for building a consumer finance platform on crypto rails. They are the bridge between crypto assets and real-world spending.
  • Phantom is launching a new in-app experience called Phantom Cash, which functions like a neobank account denominated in US dollars, built on top of a new stablecoin.
  • Phantom, in partnership with Stripe and Bridge, has designed its own stablecoin called CASH.
  • The reason for creating CASH instead of using an existing stablecoin like USDC was to have more control and better economics. With USDC, developers can't easily capture the yield generated from the underlying assets.
  • The CASH stablecoin is designed as a "public utility." Developers who integrate CASH into their apps can keep the yield generated by the stablecoins their users create, which they can then pass on to users or keep as revenue.
  • A key feature of CASH is its immediate utility: it will be accepted at all Stripe-powered merchants, providing a massive, built-in network for real-world spending.

Takeaways

  • Phantom's move into stablecoins with Phantom Cash and the CASH stablecoin represents a major strategic shift from being just a crypto wallet to becoming a full-fledged "consumer finance platform."
  • This strategy is a direct attempt to create more durable, predictable, and recurring revenue streams, similar to how Coinbase successfully diversified its business with USDC.
  • The partnership with Stripe is a significant vote of confidence and provides immediate, widespread utility for the CASH stablecoin, potentially accelerating its adoption.
  • For investors, this move positions Phantom to compete more directly with fintech giants like Robinhood and Cash App, expanding its total addressable market beyond crypto-native users.

Perpetual Futures (Perps) & Hyperliquid

  • Phantom views perpetual futures (perps) as a core crypto-native innovation that they want to make accessible to a broader, mainstream audience in a safe and easy-to-use way.
  • They recently launched a mobile-first perps trading feature, aiming to be the first to "crack" the mobile perps user experience.
  • Phantom chose to integrate with Hyperliquid, an Arbitrum-based protocol, instead of a Solana-native option like Drift or Jupiter.
  • The decision was driven by user experience: Hyperliquid offered the most liquidity and best prices for the end user.
  • This move signals that Phantom is prioritizing the best user experience over chain loyalty, a key strategic shift from being just a "Solana wallet" to a user-focused, multi-chain platform.

Takeaways

  • Phantom's entry into perps trading taps into one of the highest-engagement and highest-revenue activities in crypto.
  • The focus on a mobile-first experience could capture a new segment of retail traders who find existing desktop-based platforms too complex.
  • The choice to partner with Hyperliquid demonstrates a pragmatic, chain-agnostic approach. Investors should see Phantom as a platform that will seek out the best products for its users, regardless of the underlying blockchain, which could lead to more robust and competitive offerings.

Prediction Markets (Polymarket & Kalshi)

  • Prediction markets are identified as part of the "Holy Trinity" of crypto trends for the year, alongside stablecoins and perps.
  • Phantom is actively planning to integrate prediction markets, aiming to create a "Phantom-ification" of the experience—making it simple, safe, and accessible for their user base.
  • The speakers view prediction markets as a "mega macro trend" that is highly aligned with their audience.
  • The discussion identifies Polymarket and Kalshi as the two clear leaders in the space, setting up a "Draft Kings versus Fan Duel" style competition.
  • Phantom is carefully observing this two-horse race to decide on the best way to position itself and partner. An integration is expected "not too far" in the future.

Takeaways

  • Investors should anticipate a prediction market feature coming to Phantom soon, which could be another significant driver of user engagement and trading activity.
  • The success of this feature will likely depend on which platform they partner with. A partnership with either Polymarket or Kalshi would give Phantom immediate access to the deepest liquidity and most active markets in the space.
  • This is another example of Phantom's strategy: take a complex but popular crypto-native product and simplify it for a mass-market consumer audience.

Coinbase (COIN) & Robinhood (HOOD)

  • Coinbase is used as a direct comparison for Phantom's business trajectory. Phantom in 2024 is likened to Coinbase in 2018, with a heavy reliance on transaction-fee revenue.
  • Phantom is following the Coinbase blueprint to diversify revenue, with their CASH stablecoin strategy being analogous to Coinbase's successful bet on USDC.
  • Robinhood is identified as a key competitor in the broader "consumer finance platform" space.
  • While viewed as a competitor, Robinhood's execution, product quality, and expansion into non-crypto services (like mortgages) are seen as a model for how to grow beyond a simple trading app.

Takeaways

  • Investors can analyze Phantom's potential by comparing its current stage and strategy to the historical growth of Coinbase and Robinhood.
  • Phantom's ambition is not just to be the best crypto wallet but to compete with publicly traded fintech giants. Its success in diversifying revenue will be a key metric to watch.
  • If Phantom successfully executes its roadmap (stablecoins, debit cards, etc.), it could capture market share from both crypto-native exchanges like Coinbase and traditional fintech apps like Robinhood.

Ethereum (ETH)

  • The Phantom founders' experience building on Ethereum at ZeroX directly led to the creation of Phantom.
  • They found that wallets like MetaMask and the Ethereum network itself were holding the industry back due to poor usability and high costs, especially on mobile.
  • Ethereum was described as "not the right platform for mobile or to build apps on mobile" because it was too cumbersome.
  • The founders also noted the "dogmatism" around the Ethereum ecosystem in the early days, where discussing other chains was frowned upon.

Takeaways

  • The sentiment towards Ethereum is that while it was a necessary starting point for DeFi, its technical limitations (speed, cost) created the opportunity for competitors like Solana to emerge, especially for consumer-facing applications.
  • While Phantom now supports Ethereum and EVM chains like Polygon and Base, its origin story is rooted in solving Ethereum's shortcomings. This context is important for understanding why alternative blockchains have gained traction.
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Episode Description
This week Brandon Millman & Donnie Dinch join the show to discuss the past, present & future of Phantom. We deep dive into why did Brandon originally build Phantom, recent M&A activity, building perps, how does Phantom generate revenue, will Phantom IPO & more. Enjoy! -- Follow Brandon: https://x.com/BChillman Follow Donnie: https://x.com/donnie Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod -- Join the Empire Telegram: https://t.me/+CaCYvTOB4Eg1OWJh -- Zcash is encrypted Bitcoin. Your digital bill of rights securing your freedom for the 21st century. Buy, store and spend ZEC privately using Zashi Wallet download today: https://electriccoin.co/zashi/ -- Katana is a DeFi-first chain built for deep liquidity and high yield. No empty emissions, just real yield and sequencer fees routed back to DeFi users. Pre-deposit now: Earn high APRs with Turtle Club [https://app.turtle.club/campaigns/katana] or spin the wheel with Katana Krates [https://app.katana.network/krates] -- (00:00) Intro (04:08) Why Did Brandon Start Phantom? (12:05) Building For Crypto Users vs Normies (20:57) Ads (Zcash, Katana) (22:11) Launching Phantom CASH (27:26) How To Scale As a Startup (35:42) Launching Perps (47:12) Ads (Zcash, Katana) (48:26) How Does Phantom Generate Revenue? (53:16) The Next Chapter of Phantom (56:24) Phantom's Recent M&A (01:02:16) Ads (mantle) (01:03:15) Will Phantom Launch a Chain? (01:11:25) Prediction Markets (01:15:31) Will Phantom IPO? (01:21:01) Phantom Connect -- Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
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