I’m out of Markets Until… | Arthur Hayes
I’m out of Markets Until… | Arthur Hayes
1 hour agoCrypto Banter
Podcast39 min 7 sec
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Note: AI-generated summary based on third-party content. Not financial advice. Read more.
Quick Insights

Adopt a risk-off posture until at least November, as capital is currently being drained from the crypto market into the "AI bubble."

Avoid Bitcoin (BTC) and speculative proxies like Worldcoin (WLD) in the short term, as they are unlikely to rally until the Federal Reserve increases global liquidity.

Exit positions in Zcash (ZEC) due to critical code vulnerabilities, and only consider re-entry following the Tachyon upgrade scheduled for late 2024.

Monitor the potential SpaceX IPO as a major market signal; if it fails to trade significantly higher, it could trigger a sell-off in tech leaders like Nvidia (NVDA) and Microsoft (MSFT).

Watch for Oil prices rising toward $150, which would act as a catalyst for a market-wide correction by increasing energy costs for AI data centers.

Detailed Analysis

Bitcoin (BTC)

• Arthur Hayes expresses a bearish short-term outlook for Bitcoin, suggesting it cannot rally if the global "AI bubble" deflates. • Despite significant money creation (U.S. M2 increase), Bitcoin has underperformed recently because approximately $1.5 trillion in debt/capital has been sucked into AI and AI-adjacent companies instead of crypto. • Hayes believes Bitcoin will eventually bottom and rise only when the Fed is forced to increase liquidity ("print money") to fix the economic damage caused by a potential AI market collapse.

Takeaways

Capital Preservation: The current priority is protecting crypto capital rather than seeking aggressive gains. • Liquidity Watch: Monitor the "AI suction" of fiat; until capital stops flowing exclusively into AI tech, Bitcoin may lack the necessary liquidity to break out. • Timeline: Hayes is "risk-off" until at least November, waiting for the U.S. election and clarity on Fed policy.


AI Sector & Tech Stocks

• The discussion characterizes AI as a massive bubble driven by "ridiculous multiples" and "insatiable demand" that supply cannot meet. • Key Risks to the Bubble:Energy Costs: High oil prices ($100-$200 range) could make the "price per token" rise, causing usage to drop and destroying the "productivity miracle" narrative. • Political Rhetoric: Donald Trump may adopt "anti-AI" or "responsible AI" rhetoric to appeal to voters afraid of job losses, potentially threatening subsidies or increasing taxes on tech giants. • Supply Overload: A "deadly cocktail" of massive IPOs and stock sales (OpenAI, Anthropic, SpaceX, Meta, Google) may drain remaining market liquidity.

Takeaways

Multiple Compression: Even if AI companies remain profitable, investors may stop paying 50x earnings and drop to 40x, leading to significant share price declines. • Deceleration: Hayes warns that we are moving from "accelerating earnings" to "decelerating growth" due to the law of large numbers. • Sentiment Shift: Watch for the SpaceX IPO as a bellwether; if it fails to "rip" or trade significantly higher, it may signal the end of the "animal spirits" in AI.


SpaceX (Private/IPO)

• Mentioned as a major liquidity drain with a valuation of roughly 100x sales (or 50-60x following recent deals). • Hayes is skeptical of the valuation, calling it the "seventh largest company in human history" despite being a space company with unproven orbital data center physics.

Takeaways

Market Impact: If SpaceX is added to major indices immediately, index managers may be forced to sell Nvidia (NVDA), Microsoft (MSFT), and Amazon (AMZN) to make room, creating downward pressure on existing tech leaders. • Investment Risk: Hayes suggests it is difficult to "make the chart green" (show growth) when starting at a $1.8 trillion valuation.


Privacy Coins & Altcoins (ZEC, NEAR, WLD)

Zcash (ZEC): Hayes exited his position following a vulnerability that Claude (AI) helped identify. He argues that if a bug exists that prevents the cryptographic proof of the 21 million supply limit, the fundamental thesis of "perfect privacy" is broken. • Worldcoin (WLD): Viewed as a proxy for OpenAI. Hayes exited because he believes if the AI bubble pops, Worldcoin will be hit hardest as a speculative proxy. • Near Protocol (NEAR): Hayes exited this position primarily for liquidity and profit-taking, citing an unfavorable macro environment.

Takeaways

AI vs. Crypto Code: There is a growing risk that AI models (like Claude or Mythos) will find "zero-day" vulnerabilities in open-source crypto protocols, leading to sudden 50% crashes. • Wait for Verification: For Zcash, Hayes suggests waiting for the Tachyon upgrade (Q3/Q4) which may allow for auditing of the shielded pool before re-entering.


Macro Themes: Oil and the Fed

Oil/Energy: If the Iran-U.S. tensions continue, oil could reach $150-$200. This is viewed as "kryptonite" for both the AI sector (due to electricity costs) and the general economy. • The Federal Reserve: Hayes expects the Fed to do "nothing" (a hawkish hold) in the near term. He does not see rate cuts happening before the November election because the Fed lacks the political cover amidst high inflation.

Takeaways

Election Cycle: Expect high volatility and "flexible" political promises until November. • Investment Strategy: "Hope is not a strategy." Hayes recommends sitting in cash or "skiing and chilling" until the political and energy dust settles.

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Episode Description
Arthur Hayes joins Ran to discuss the latest developments across crypto, stocks, and the broader macro landscape. With the move to go fully risk-off looking more and more necessary, they explore the key risks, opportunities, and signals shaping today's environment. From liquidity to Bitcoin and equities, this is a deep dive into what's driving markets right now and what could come next. ___________________________________________ 𝗙𝗘𝗔𝗧𝗨𝗥𝗘𝗗 𝗢𝗡 𝗧𝗛𝗜𝗦 𝗦𝗛𝗢𝗪! ⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇ ⭐️ 𝗧𝗥𝗔𝗗𝗘 𝗦𝗧𝗔𝗥𝗦 - 𝗝𝗼𝗶𝗻 𝗥𝗮𝗻 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗮 𝘀𝗲𝗮𝘁 𝗮𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗧𝗔𝗕𝗟𝗘 𝗶𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗧𝗥𝗔𝗗𝗘 𝗦𝗧𝗔𝗥𝗦 𝗼𝗽𝗲𝗻𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗧𝗼𝘂𝗿𝗻𝗮𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁!! 1️⃣ 𝗥𝗘𝗚𝗜𝗦𝗧𝗘𝗥 𝗛𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝗙𝗜𝗥𝗦𝗧 👉 https://tradestars.xyz/sign-in-up?referral_code=HVQX4JJD 2️⃣ Then join here - BANTER PRIVATE COMMUNITY ONLY - $5k PRIZE TABLE!! 👉 https://tradestars.xyz/table?table_id=472 ___________________________________________ 𝗛𝗢𝗦𝗧 & 𝗚𝗨𝗘𝗦𝗧 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟𝗦 ⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇ 🆇 ARTHUR ON X 👉 https://x.com/cryptohayes?s=21 _____________________ 🆇 𝗥𝗔𝗡 𝗢𝗡 𝗫 👉 Follow Ran: https://x.com/cryptomanran 📷 𝗥𝗔𝗡 𝗢𝗡 𝗜𝗡𝗦𝗧𝗔𝗚𝗥𝗔𝗠 👉 Follow Ran: https://bit.ly/ran-insta 📺 𝗥𝗔𝗡 𝗡𝗘𝗨𝗡𝗘𝗥 𝗨𝗡𝗙𝗜𝗟𝗧𝗘𝗥𝗘𝗗 ➡️ On this channel, Ran shares raw, unfiltered business lessons 👉 Subscribe here: https://www.youtube.com/@RanNeunerOfficial 📺 𝗖𝗥𝗬𝗣𝗧𝗢 𝗜𝗡𝗦𝗜𝗗𝗘𝗥 ➡️ Building the world’s most profitable crypto community with breaking news and alfa 👉 Subscribe here: https://www.youtube.com/@CryptoInsiderOfficial ___________________________________________ 👁️‍🗨️ 𝗖𝗿𝘆𝗽𝘁𝗼 𝗕𝗮𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝗮𝗯𝗶𝗱𝗲 𝗯𝘆 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗳𝗼𝗹𝗹𝗼𝘄𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗰𝗼𝗱𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗱𝘂𝗰𝘁:https://www.cryptobanter.com/our-ethics/ We take our code of ethics very seriously and have engaged @zachxbt ( / zachxbt ) to monitor our progress. If you feel we’re not living up to it and have hard evidence please mail ZachXBT directly at reportcb@protonmail.com ⚠️ 𝗕𝗘𝗪𝗔𝗥𝗘 𝗢𝗙 𝗦𝗖𝗔𝗠𝗠𝗘𝗥𝗦 𝗜𝗡 𝗢𝗨𝗥 𝗖𝗢𝗠𝗠𝗘𝗡𝗧𝗦 𝗔𝗡𝗗 𝗖𝗢𝗠𝗠𝗨𝗡𝗜𝗧𝗬 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟𝗦 ___________________________________________ 📝 𝗗𝗶𝘀𝗰𝗹𝗮𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿: Crypto Banter is a social podcast for entertainment purposes only! All opinions expressed by the hosts, guests and callers should not be construed as financial advice! Views expressed by guests and hosts do not reflect the views of the station. Listeners are encouraged to do their own research.
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