The Chopping Block: Paul Grewal on Regulation, Tokenization, and Crypto’s Next Legal Frontier – Ep 867
6 days agoUnchainedLaura Shin
Podcast42 min 22 sec
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Quick Insights

Coinbase (COIN) presents a compelling investment case, driven by the potential passage of the Clarity Act, which a key insider estimates has a 75% chance of success. This regulatory clarity would de-risk its business and position it to lead the tokenization of public stocks theme. For higher-risk investors, the upcoming Pump.Fun (PUMP) token launch on Solana is a major event, with a planned mechanism to use 25% of its massive revenue for a buyback and burn. This ICO is launching at a $4 billion valuation, representing a significant high-reward opportunity in the meme coin ecosystem. As an alternative, investors can monitor Bonk (BONK), whose competing launchpad is gaining traction and presents a rival investment thesis.

Detailed Analysis

Tokenization of Equities (Investment Theme)

  • This was described as the "new big meta" in crypto, with major players entering the space. The discussion covered two main types: tokenizing pre-IPO companies and tokenizing publicly traded stocks.
  • Pre-IPO Tokenization:
    • Companies like Robinhood (HOOD) and SoFi (SOFI) are launching products to give retail investors access to pre-IPO companies like SpaceX, OpenAI, and Epic Games.
    • This is driven by significant "pent-up demand" from retail investors who want access to high-growth private companies.
    • However, this faces major challenges:
      • Regulatory Hurdles: Tokenizing private companies attempts to circumvent the established legal process of "going public," which exists to protect investors through disclosures and fiduciary duties.
      • Company Resistance: Private companies are often reluctant to have their shares traded freely due to concerns about valuation and managing their list of shareholders (cap table).
      • Limited Universe: The number of pre-IPO companies that have widespread name recognition is very small (estimated at around 10), limiting the size of this market.
  • Public Stock Tokenization:
    • This is viewed as more "straightforward" and "extremely inevitable" because public companies already meet high standards for financial disclosure.
    • Coinbase (COIN) has been vocal about its desire to enter this space, stating, "We want to see a world of tokenized equities and we want to see it now."
  • Potential Benefits & Use Cases:
    • 24/7 Trading: Unlike traditional markets which close, tokenized assets could trade around the clock.
    • Global Access: Could open up U.S. equities to investors in countries with restricted access, like China and India.
    • DeFi Integration: The real "killer use case" might be the ability to use tokenized stocks within the crypto ecosystem for things like lending, borrowing, or in automated trading strategies.
    • High Leverage: A potential, though controversial, use case is offering traders much higher leverage (e.g., 20x) on traditional stocks than is available in regulated brokerage accounts. This could attract significant retail demand but also regulatory scrutiny.

Takeaways

  • Tokenization is a major long-term trend to watch. The primary players to monitor in the near term are Coinbase (COIN) and Robinhood (HOOD).
  • While pre-IPO tokenization is generating headlines, it faces significant headwinds. The tokenization of public stocks is likely the more viable and scalable opportunity in the short-to-medium term.
  • The success of this theme depends on finding a "killer app" or "excess utility" that makes holding a tokenized stock clearly better than holding it in a traditional brokerage account. Investors should look for platforms that successfully integrate these assets into DeFi protocols.

Coinbase (COIN)

  • The podcast highlighted Coinbase's successful navigation of its legal battles with the SEC, positioning it as a resilient industry leader that fought "for the life of the industry."
  • The passage of the Clarity Act, a market structure bill, is seen as a monumental catalyst for the company. One speaker noted it "really makes Coinbase successful for 100 years."
  • Coinbase's Chief Legal Officer, Paul Grewal, handicapped the odds of the Clarity Act passing at 75%, a strong signal of confidence from a key insider.
  • The company is actively working with the SEC to launch tokenized equities, which represents a significant future growth avenue.

Takeaways

  • The investment case for COIN is heavily tied to the US regulatory landscape. The potential passage of the Clarity Act is the single most important catalyst to watch. A 75% probability from a company insider suggests the market may not be fully pricing in this positive outcome.
  • If the bill passes, it would provide much-needed regulatory clarity, de-risk the business model, and solidify Coinbase's position as a regulated, long-term leader in the US crypto market.
  • Coinbase's ambition in the tokenized asset space provides another long-term growth vector beyond its core exchange business.

Pump.Fun (PUMP)

  • Pump.Fun is the largest meme coin launchpad on the Solana blockchain and was described as one of the "most profitable protocols to ever have been created in crypto."
  • The protocol has generated over $700 million in revenue since its inception.
  • They are in the process of launching their own token via a massive $1 billion Initial Coin Offering (ICO) at a $4 billion fully diluted valuation (FDV).
  • A key rumored feature of the token is a buyback and burn mechanism, where 25% of protocol revenue will be used to buy PUMP tokens from the market and destroy them, creating value for token holders.
  • The launch is seen as a potential "return of ICOs," reminiscent of the 2017-2018 era, but this time with a project that has a proven, highly profitable product.

Takeaways

  • The Pump.Fun ICO represents a very high-risk, high-reward investment opportunity. The $4 billion valuation is steep, but it's backed by a platform with massive, verifiable on-chain revenue.
  • The 25% revenue burn is a powerful value accrual mechanism. If the platform can maintain its revenue, this could create significant buying pressure for the token.
  • Risks: The primary risks are the high valuation, potential regulatory scrutiny of a $1B ICO, and increasing competition from other launchpads like the one from Bonk.

Bonk (BONK)

  • Bonk, a major Solana meme coin, was mentioned as a rising competitor to Pump.Fun through its own launchpad, "Let's Bonk."
  • The Bonk launchpad has recently seen its revenue "supersede" Pump.Fun's by a significant margin.
  • A key caveat was mentioned: Bonk is offering significant incentives to attract users, so it's unclear if this growth is organic and sustainable or if volume will drop off once the incentives are removed.

Takeaways

  • BONK is positioning itself as a direct competitor in the lucrative meme coin launchpad space. Its recent success in attracting volume is a bullish sign.
  • For investors interested in the meme coin ecosystem, BONK could be viewed as a competing bet against Pump.Fun's dominance.
  • The key factor to monitor is whether Bonk's launchpad can retain users and volume after its initial incentive programs wind down. This will determine if it's a true long-term competitor.
Episode Description
Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. In this episode, the gang is joined by Paul Grewal, Chief Legal Officer at Coinbase, for a wide-ranging conversation on crypto’s next big frontier: tokenized stocks. From Robinhood’s controversial attempt to tokenize SpaceX and OpenAI shares to the legal and structural hurdles around pre-IPO derivatives, the crew dives deep into what it really takes to bring Wall Street on-chain. They also unpack the regulatory momentum behind the Genius and Clarity Acts, the return of ICO mania with Pump.fun’s $1B token raise, and the absurdly viral drama of Suitgate on Polymarket. Is this a new era of regulated innovation—or are we just recreating old problems on new rails? Tune in for sharp takes, legal insight, and a few laughs along the way. Show highlights 🔹 Tokenized Stocks Take Center Stage – Robinhood, SoFi, and Republic dive into pre-IPO trading; is this a financial revolution or regulatory chaos? 🔹 Coinbase’s Legal Strategy – Paul Grewal reflects on Coinbase’s battles with the SEC and what it took to survive crypto’s darkest legal hour 🔹 Pre-IPO Derivatives vs. Real Ownership – The crew debates whether retail is getting access or getting played 🔹 Robinhood vs. OpenAI – The tokenized equity stunt that triggered a corporate backlash and raised eyebrows across the industry 🔹 24/7 Markets, Finally? – Why crypto-native trading hours could break traditional finance 🔹 Pump.fun’s $1B ICO – The return of ICO mania? The team dissects crypto’s most profitable meme machine 🔹 Are Tokenized Stocks Useful Yet? – Tarun challenges the hype: where’s the real utility? 🔹 The Clarity & Genius Acts – Crypto legislation heats up in Washington—can the industry lock in meaningful reform? 🔹 Suitgate Explained – Zelensky’s outfit spawns a scandal on Polymarket: was it a suit or not? 🔹 Market Manipulation, Oracles & Meme Justice – Prediction markets meet internet chaos in the wildest crypto dispute of the week ⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly ⭐️Robert Leshner, CEO & Co-founder of Superstate⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly  Special Guest ⭐️Paul Grewal, Chief Legal Officer at Coinbase Timestamps 00:00 Intro feat. Paul Grewal 01:23 How Coinbase Beat the SEC 04:49 Robinhood, OpenAI & the Pre-IPO Stock Craze 19:38 Crypto Regulation in 2025: Clarity & Genius Act 24:39 Why the Clarity Act Could Define Crypto’s Next Decade 27:10 Pump.fun’s ICO: Memecoin Mania or Market Maturity? 32:25 Suitgate on Polymarket: A Wild Crypto Scandal 39:19 The Future of Prediction Markets Disclosures Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
About Unchained

Unchained

By Laura Shin

Crypto assets and blockchain technology are about to transform every trust-based interaction of our lives, from financial services to identity to the Internet of Things. In this podcast, host Laura Shin, an independent journalist covering all things crypto, talks with industry pioneers about how crypto assets and blockchains will change the way we earn, spend and invest our money. Tune in to find out how Web 3.0, the decentralized web, will revolutionize our world. Disclosure: I'm a nocoiner.